Looking for MMI M2018 LCA data sheet

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Hello,

I'm a collector and tinkerer of old, archaic devices, and I recently  
came across a MMI M2018-20CP (date code 81xx) in a PGA package.

I've found the M2064 data sheet, but I can't seem to track down the  
M2018 data sheet from MMI/AMD. I'm also looking for the MMI XACT tools  
of the same era that would support generating the data pattern (what we  
might call a configuration bitstream these days) from RTL.

Any and all pointers are appreciated!

--- Zach
(replace the ask me with pobox, and the please with zmetzing)

Re: Looking for MMI M2018 LCA data sheet
On Friday, May 15, 2020 at 12:50:45 PM UTC-4, Zach Metzinger wrote:
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You can fix your sig so newsreaders automatically remove it in replies.  

As to your problem, not so sure.  I know who AMD is, but is MMI one of the  
CPLD makers?  Did Xilinx buy MMI?  XACT is a Xilinx trademark for their ver
y ancient development software.  I used to have copies, but gave them away  
to someone who said he would give it a good home.  I don't think the dongle
 ever turned up, but they are easy to make (it was a down counter with a ca
rry out after some number of pulses) and there are software cracks.  If I f
ind who that guy is I'll let him know someone in c.a.f is looking for him.
  

So is this what you are looking for, Xilinx software?  

--  

  Rick C.

  - Get 1,000 miles of free Supercharging
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Re: Looking for MMI M2018 LCA data sheet
On 05/15/20 13:23, Rick C wrote:

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Not sure what you're referring to. I do that to avoid automatic scraping  
of my email address.

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I need XACT that supports the M2018, which Xilinx had a cross part for  
(XC2018-xx). I can probably figure out the dongle situation with a debugger.

Before anyone says "just use something recent": This is for a  
period-piece design, so modern wouldn't be appropriate. I've got  
hundreds of FPGAs and CPLDs, spanning many decades.

I doubt Xilinx will care much that I'm asking for obsolete software. :-)

I did find the data sheet from archive.org, buried in the MMI LCA  
Applications Handbook, so I have a pinout now.

Also looks like I'm about 19 years behind someone else on the quest:

https://groups.google.com/forum /#!topic/comp.arch.fpga/1lPu9RgVN00

--- Zach


Re: Looking for MMI M2018 LCA data sheet
On 05/15/20 13:39, Zach Metzinger wrote:

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Nevermind! I seem to have solved this problem 4 years ago, and bit-rot  
got those neurons.

--- Zach

Re: Looking for MMI M2018 LCA data sheet
On Friday, May 15, 2020 at 2:57:01 PM UTC-4, Zach Metzinger wrote:
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Oh, how did you solve it?  

--  

  Rick C.

  -- Get 1,000 miles of free Supercharging
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Re: Looking for MMI M2018 LCA data sheet
On 05/15/20 14:06, Rick C wrote:
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A friend of mine had this laying around (XACT 5.1), and I still have it  
sitting in a box from him.

Hurrah!

--- Zach


Re: Looking for MMI M2018 LCA data sheet
On Friday, May 15, 2020 at 4:15:41 PM UTC-4, Zach Metzinger wrote:
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Do you have the parallel port dongle?  People have explained in very high level terms how to crack the software so you don't need the dongle.  Since PCs don't have parallel ports anymore, that might be the best way to go anyhow.  

Good luck,  

--  

  Rick C.

  -+ Get 1,000 miles of free Supercharging
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Re: Looking for MMI M2018 LCA data sheet
On 05/15/20 16:24, Rick C wrote:

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I don't have the dongle, but yes, there are ways around that.

DOSBox supports parallel ports, and I even submitted a patch so that  
DOSBox under FreeBSD could get to /dev/ppi0. I needed this for both a  
parallel-port EEPROM programmer and an EEPROM emulator.

http://praxibetel.org/toro/index.html

--- Zach



Re: Looking for MMI M2018 LCA data sheet
On Friday, May 15, 2020 at 6:14:04 PM UTC-4, Zach Metzinger wrote:
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gh level terms how to crack the software so you don't need the dongle.  Sin
ce PCs don't have parallel ports anymore, that might be the best way to go  
anyhow.
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I've found software that will redirect serial ports between programs and ha
rdware ports so you can loop a program back to talk to another program.  A  
dongle emulator program could replace the hardware port.  But I think the s
oftware patch they talk about just mucks with the tool program to make it t
hink the dongle is there without actually checking.  

Good luck,  

--  

  Rick C.

  ++ Get 1,000 miles of free Supercharging
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Re: Looking for MMI M2018 LCA data sheet
Am 16.05.20 um 02:08 schrieb Rick C:
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The dongle did toggle paper empty after some 245 clocks, the exact
number said if it was apr only or full product. I don't remember
if there was a simulator included. Maybe Viewlogic / futurenet.
I'm pretty sure that I have passed that futurenet stuff to recycling.
But I had bought the Simucad Silos simulator and even built a
library for the 10K / 100K ECL stuff I was also doing at that time.

We had a lot of fake dongles and an entire stack of Compaq/286 that
all did apr overnight on the same problem, in the hope that at least
one of the routed solutions was usable.

We never liked Viewlogic and everybody I knew built pressure on
the FAEs to support DOS Orcad. Xilinx finally gave in
and provided libraries and a netlist converter.
We considered that a major breakthrough.

I think I still have a 2064 / 2018 eval board somewhere,
also some dongles, might be for later versions.
And maybe a par port programming cable.
There were frequent updates with boxes full of floppy disks.
I always had enough floppies. :-)

Cheers, Gerhard



Re: Looking for MMI M2018 LCA data sheet
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Hmm, perhaps it would be a good idea to have an archive of old FPGA tools.

It could be worth submitting it to the Internet Archive (archive.org) - they
let you upload old software and documents.  I assume they have some kind of
copyright waiver to allow them to do this.

They don't have a whole lot of FPGA tools at present, but they have some
nice Xilinx 5.25" floppies...
https://archive.org/details/XilinxBorgDisks

Theo

Re: Looking for MMI M2018 LCA data sheet
On Friday, May 15, 2020 at 5:51:43 PM UTC-4, Theo wrote:
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.
hey
of

Wow!  I've got a very popular schematic editor (and expensive) from that ti
me frame (early 90's) sitting in my basement on 3.5" floppies, 10 or 20 of  
them.  I can't recall the name.  I think it had "view" in the name, but not
 Labview, that was something very different.  We used it for the FPGA desig
ns before HDL.  I still have this.  Forgot all about it.  

--  

  Rick C.

  +- Get 1,000 miles of free Supercharging
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Re: Looking for MMI M2018 LCA data sheet
On 15/05/2020 23:05, Rick C wrote:
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Probably Viewlogic, I also used it (ViewDraw under DOS3.3) to create  
designs for Actels A1010 and A1020. When the Windows95 version finally  
came out I switched to VHDL and Actmap (Asyl+) which was such an  
improvement in productivity...

Hans.
www.ht-lab.com

Re: Looking for MMI M2018 LCA data sheet
On Saturday, May 16, 2020 at 3:20:50 AM UTC-4, HT-Lab wrote:
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it
ols.
- they
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nd of
me
t time frame (early 90's) sitting in my basement on 3.5" floppies, 10 or 20
 of them.  I can't recall the name.  I think it had "view" in the name, but
 not Labview, that was something very different.  We used it for the FPGA d
esigns before HDL.  I still have this.  Forgot all about it.
Quoted text here. Click to load it

Yes!  Viewlogic!  I don't recall hating the program but there was something
 about it that I took issue with.  I was a schematic hold out.  FPGAs were  
still small then.  A guy who used to post here, Ray Andraka (if I have the  
spelling right) did very detailed hierarchical schematics with relative pla
cement info passed down through the levels.  He resisted VHDL because of th
e huge advantages this provided with optimization which was some huge part  
of his work and his success.  

Then Xilinx showed him how to do the same hierarchical distribution of plac
ement instructions and he never looked back.  

I did think in terms of schematic more easily than text.  But the nature of
 designs has just gotten so much more complex that schematic would be very  
hard to utilize.  That was the theme Xilinx was pushing at the time but I d
idn't buy it.  I never realized FPGAs would get so big.  

--  

  Rick C.

  --- Get 1,000 miles of free Supercharging
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Re: Looking for MMI M2018 LCA data sheet
On Friday, May 15, 2020 at 2:39:32 PM UTC-4, Zach Metzinger wrote:
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Not talking about that.  BTW, I can't see what you've entered as the fake e
mail address through google groups, so no idea what I'm altering.  

I'm talking about the dashes.  If you start your sig with a line of two das
hes and a space and nothing else, it is a flag to newsreaders of the start  
of a sig and it is automatically trimmed in a reply.  Many people don't bot
her with that, but the polite ones do.  

Mine is that way.  


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.  I used to have copies, but gave them away to someone who said he would g
ive it a good home.  I don't think the dongle ever turned up, but they are  
easy to make (it was a down counter with a carry out after some number of p
ulses) and there are software cracks.  If I find who that guy is I'll let h
im know someone in c.a.f is looking for him.
Quoted text here. Click to load it
er.

Not certain they still offer it, but at one time they still had a download  
of the "classic" software buried in a corner of the web site.  You might fi
nd it if you nose around or maybe a google search XACT site:xilinx.com ???


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Wow!  That's from 2001!  The guy I gave my tools to was likely posting here
, but it would have been in the last 10 years.  I did a quick search and di
dn't find the email so I'm doing a full search of all my email for the last
 20 years.  It will take a bit even on a modern computer.  

--  

  Rick C.

  + Get 1,000 miles of free Supercharging
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Re: Looking for MMI M2018 LCA data sheet
Zach,

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I only used the very first version of XACT (back when it was 2064 only) and
 it didn't have RTL. You would point to a LUT on the screen and could eithe
r type a PALASM style equation (which I suppose is sort of RTLish) or toggl
e the 16 bits on and off individually. You would route by clicking along a  
path from one output to an input. The nice part about that is that it would
 show the delay so far in the cursor, so you could backtrack and try a diff
erent path if you were unhappy with how things were going.

I remember when Altera moved from PALASM to AHDL but only had contact with  
Xilinx again in the Verilog/VHDL era.

-- Jecel

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