what's this i number, anyhow?

Feynman called Euler's formula:

e(exp ix) = cosx + isinx

-he called it "the jewel." (FLP V1, ca. ch. 20)

I imagine some of you who use this number implicitly, when you learned it in school, had a "wtf" moment.

Feynman presented it as the link between algebra and geometry.

Anyone have any philosophical insight into this absurdity? Is this just a tool to get a result?

Just wondering. ( an entre into another subject, actually.)

jb

Reply to
haiticare2011
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Sure that works. I like phasor diagrams for understanding some stuff.

Absurd? Do you dislike negative numbers too? (-1 apple.. I mean how can you have a negative apple? :^)

Let's face it mathematics is absurdly useful in science. I had a professor who just loved quaternions. And then there are those spinor matrics in QM.. (just thinking beyond i.)

George H.

Reply to
George Herold

Well, I can "see" a negative number - If you steal my shoes, I could feel a negative pair of shoes. But...the SQRT of -1, what's that? :) jb

Reply to
haiticare2011

Pretty easy - orthogonal to your shoes ...

--

-TV
Reply to
Tauno Voipio

The invention of a 13yo boy.

Reply to
bloggs.fredbloggs.fred

Ahem, not able to imagine an apple?

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Thanks, 
Fred.
Reply to
Fred Bartoli

A lot of the development in mathematics of the more practical sort has consisted in finding additional models for existing sets of axioms. Pythagoras discovered irrational numbers, for instance, which satisfy the axioms of arithmetic. Later it was discovered (by Dedekind and Cantor iirc) that algebraic irrationals were countable, i.e. you can put them into a 1:1 correspondence with the integers.

Complex numbers satisfy all the axioms of the real numbers except for the Archimedean order property, i.e. that any list of reals can be uniquely sorted by value, whereas of course complex ones can't. (It doesn't make sense to say either that i > 1 or that i < 1, for instance.)

The connection between sines and cosines and complex numbers is pretty natural, because of the Argand diagram (i.e. the complex plane)--polar and rectangular coordinates, and all that.

The Euler formula is the really unexpected thing. The identity between the steep monotonic exponential function and oscillatory trigonometric functions is really very surprising. (Euler lived a long time ago.)

Cheers

Phil Hobbs

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ElectroOptical Innovations LLC 
Optics, Electro-optics, Photonics, Analog Electronics 

160 North State Road #203 
Briarcliff Manor NY 10510 

hobbs at electrooptical dot net 
http://electrooptical.net
Reply to
Phil Hobbs

The thing that I dislike most about quaternions is that they are useful for certain limited areas of engineering which I occasionally must visit. When I get there, I find myself having to write, debug, and maintain code to do quaternion arithmetic.

Thank goodness that octonions have no use in the real world!

--

Tim Wescott 
Wescott Design Services 
http://www.wescottdesign.com
Reply to
Tim Wescott

Right up your alley.

Reply to
krw

Here's a more concrete example:

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--

John Larkin                  Highland Technology Inc 
www.highlandtechnology.com   jlarkin at highlandtechnology dot com    

Precision electronic instrumentation
Reply to
John Larkin

Examples or instances, not models.

They do? sqrt(2) * sqrt(2)= 2, so irrationals are not "closed" under multiplication because 2 is not an irrational.

What was the significance of that little gem?

Ummm, sounds like you're confusing Archimedes order with what mathematicians would call a total order. The Archimedes order is something entirely different *as far as I can tell* from a quick scan of this:

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Total order simply means any two elements can be compared.

Actually it was not all that profound. Euler was the analytical series guru and realized quickly that substituting ix in the known series for exp(x) resulting in the sum of series for cos(x) and isin(x).

Reply to
bloggs.fredbloggs.fred

Cheers

Reply to
Martin Riddle

You probably think 1^sqrt(2) =1 and only 1?

Reply to
bloggs.fredbloggs.fred

I like this part :

"Warning: this comic occasionally contains strong language (which may be unsuitable for children), unusual humor (which may be unsuitable for adults), and advanced mathematics (which may be unsuitable for liberal-arts majors)."

Reply to
jurb6006

They don't have to be closed under multiplication to satisfy the axioms of arithmetic. The set of real numbers satisfies the axioms of arithmetic, and so the set of irrational numbers does as well, since it is contained in the former.

They would need to be closed under multiplication to be a field, like the field of rational or real numbers, but the irrationals aren't a field (they aren't any nice algebraic structure).

Reply to
bitrex

If you delve a bit deeper into complex functions, things get quite spooky, like the effect of singularities on line integrals. Bit heavy for armchair reading, but can be engrossing if you make the effort.

Managed to get some way into elliptic curves after a fair struggle, that throws up some amazing results as well.

Reply to
Bruce Varley

Functions on the complex plane have the nice property that if they are analytic (I.e. expressable by a power series) in some open region of the plane, then they are also holomorphic in that region (infinitely differentiable.) This is opposed to real analysis, where you can have all sorts of strange constructs like functions which are continuous everywhere and differentiable nowhere (Weierstrauss functions), or functions which are differentiable everywhere but nowhere analytic.

Reply to
bitrex

Arithmetic:

" The basic calculations we make in everyday life: addition, subtraction, multiplication and division.

It also includes fractions and percentages (related to division) and exponents (related to multiplication)."

From

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Reply to
bloggs.fredbloggs.fred

I prefer to think of it as e^(i . pi) - 1 = 0, as it combines the 5 most important mathematical numbers into one equation.

Reply to
David Brown

Some sort of generalised rotation?

Just be glad you don't need to use Clifford algebras...

--
Regards, 
Martin Brown
Reply to
Martin Brown

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