They still haven't caught onto the "free lunch" though.
See above.
I have zero CFLs in the house. I bought some T-8s for the unfinished "bonus room" and will install them when it cools off a little more. Other than that, no fluorescents in the house at all. I'm stocking up on 60W clear bulbs though. New house with all new fixtures takes 48,
60W clear bulbs, plus a few candelabras, can spots, and other types. I hate CFLs and am not about to change all the fixtures.
We don't leave lights on either. The TV uses far more electricity than all the lights in the house combined. The heat pumps a tad more than that. ;-)
I don't want the floor lit. I want what I'm looking at lit.
The factory claims 5 years run-time. They are built with Aluminium heat sinks and PWM pulsings for extended life. Certainly, we have to verify their claims indenpendently.
But the high end electric users pay more. Beside being more effecticient, LED is also safer to dispose of, without the mercury vapor in CFL.
That's true. But for commerical buildings, some lights are on forever.
the
I got a few samples of LED spot lights. I am ready to replace all the CFL in my house.
If that's this flickery car taillight stuff I don't want any.
Yes, that is the big advantage. CFL weren't such a smart thing after all.
Same here, like the porch light that goes all night. But I found that a
25W clear bulb makes about the same quality of light as the 21W CFL that's in there now (yellow glass). If you don't use yellow glass you'll get stung by all sorts of things buzzing through the air. So not much savings here.
Another main advantage would be if they'd be dimmable. That's a huge downside of CFL.
--
Regards, Joerg
http://www.analogconsultants.com/
"gmail" domain blocked because of excessive spam.
Use another domain or send PM.
I'd like to find LED "floods" with light output equivalent to 150W (or higher) Halogens, then I'll switch.
Presently have 6 x 75W Halogens... inadequate from 15' ceiling :-( ...Jim Thompson
--
| James E.Thompson, P.E. | mens |
| Analog Innovations, Inc. | et |
| Analog/Mixed-Signal ASIC\'s and Discrete Systems | manus |
| Phoenix, Arizona 85048 Skype: Contacts Only | |
| Voice:(480)460-2350 Fax: Available upon request | Brass Rat |
| E-mail Icon at http://www.analog-innovations.com | 1962 |
Coming soon to the elementary school in your neighborhood...
I pledge allegiance to Dear Leader Barack Hussein Obama and to the
community organization for which he stands: one nation under
ACORN, unchallengeable, with wealth redistribution and climate
change for all.
Look at the bright side: If you'd modulate the IR signals from the remote onto those and switch out the receiver to non-IR your range problems should be solved once and for good :-)
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Regards, Joerg
http://www.analogconsultants.com/
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Use another domain or send PM.
Bought some photodiodes and high output LED's from Newark. Just haven't had the time to play... too many SWMBO projects ;-) ...Jim Thompson
-- | James E.Thompson, P.E. | mens | | Analog Innovations, Inc. | et | | Analog/Mixed-Signal ASIC's and Discrete Systems | manus | | Phoenix, Arizona 85048 Skype: Contacts Only | | | Voice:(480)460-2350 Fax: Available upon request | Brass Rat | | E-mail Icon at
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| 1962 | Coming soon to the elementary school in your neighborhood...
I pledge allegiance to Dear Leader Barack Hussein Obama and to the community organization for which he stands: one nation under ACORN, unchallengeable, with wealth redistribution and climate change for all.
I'm not sure where you get your cost data, but quality LEDs, such as the Luxeon line, sell for about $3 per watt in small quantities. The cost of an LED-based lamp will be higher than the cost of the LEDs alone due to the cost of the driver, driver housing, heat sink for the various LEDs, etc. If you used Luxeon III's at 700ma (to get long life) each would generate about 60 lumens, and you would need 15 to generate the same 900 lumens as a standard 60-watt incandescent. At $6 each, the cost of the LEDs alone (again in small quantities) would be $90. This calculation is for 5500K white LEDs, which are not acceptable for most residential applications. Lower CCT LEDs may cost the same as the 5500K ones, but they produce less light per LED, so you would need a higher number of LEDs for lower CCT, which will push the cost up further.
The LEDs would cost less in large quantities, but even with the expected large quantity discount, this cost makes the lamp a non-starter until the cost per lumen comes down. ($ per lumen is a better way than $/watt to track LED costs as LEDs improve.)
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Vic Roberts
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Large quantities are around $1.5/watt. Pulsing them give you 50% more. So, around $1/watt. Yes, that's for LEDs alone, not counting the rest.
LED bulbs are more directional. So, a 7x1W LED bulb on the ceiling will have the equavilant output of 60W incandescent bulb on the ground. Most of incandescent bulb output is just heating and lighting up the ceiling. LED bulbs are typically 3, 5 or 7 LEDs.
Good efficient high power LEDs achieving over 80 lumens per watt cost more than that in quantities of thousands. The retail price of a 7 watt LED lightbulb will be much more, even if everything else in the bulb such as the associated circuitry was free.
There are cheaper high power LEDs. And there are good ones costing only a couple bucks in quantities in the 10,000's and able to handle a few watts - but only achieving 80-plus lumens/watt at a couple watts or less and 100-plus lumens/watt at around 1 watt or less.
Meanwhile, a 60 watt 120V incandescent typically produces 870 lumens for a "standard" one. CFLs and HIR-technology halogens claiming equivalence to a 60 watt incandescent generally produce at least 800 lumens. To produce 800 lumens from 7 watts, the overall luminous efficacy has to be
114-124 lumens per watt. I have yet to see any high power LEDs on the market achieving this unless they are seriously underpowered (fraction of a watt per LED having a 1 mm^2 die). Furthermore, the circuitry used to run the LEDs from 120V AC will have some losses.
And so far, I have only seen white LEDs achieving 100-plus lumens/watt in color temperatures of 4100-6500 K with color rendering index around
65-75.
LEDs still have a ways to go before they become practical for most home lighting.
I would use white LEDs over an RGB mixture for 3 reasons:
I have had bad luck achieving smooth color mixing when the LED light is in beams.
White LEDs nowadays have higher luminous efficacy than colored ones.
Several years ago, an RGB mixture was able to achieve greater overall luminous efficacy than white LEDs did, and I published a web page that I have yet to remove which gives a bit of help with proportions of R, G, and B.
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An RGB color mixture has strange color rendering properties and low color rendering index. Reds tend to be very greatly exaggerated in brightness and vividness, and browns are rendered more red than "normal". However, an RGB mixture's color distortions are roughly the opposite of those of a white LED, and there are RGBW and RGBA (A is amber) LEDs on the market, possibly for this reason among others such as providing for adjustment of overall color.
How about F32T8 nominally 32 watt fluorescents, which are more efficient than most white LEDs and cost in small quantities about as much as good sub-4-watt white LEDs cost in quantities of thousands?
It appears to me that in Europe and Asia most home lighting is still incandescent and fluorescent, let alone office, retail, school and industrial lighting where fluorescent still rules by a large margin. Even in Europe most street lighting is HID rather than LED - small wonder since
1 watt LEDs have yet to achieve luminous efficiency past that of 400 watt HPS lamps and much past that of 150 watt HPS and 150-watt-plus metal halide.
Why pulse them? My great extensive experience working with white LEDs tells me that all of the usual white LEDs operate more efficiently with steady DC than with pulsing.
Please tell us where to buy an LED "light bulb" producing 800-plus lumens from less than 13 watts, or 1700-1750 lumens from 26 watts, which CFLs achieve.
Most commercial lighting in USA is done with F32T8 fluorescents, costing $2 apiece for one case of 25 in the higher color rendering grade, achieving over 90 lumens/watt after ballast losses, and lasting fairly easily 24,000 operating hours.
Can you tell us brand, model, where and how to obtain for how much $$, power consumption in watts, light output in lumens, and color rendering index and color temperature?
Given the USA average rate of mercury emission per KWH of electricity generation due to mercury content in coal, on average most CFLs successfully replacing incandescents of 60 watts or more achieve a net reduction of transfer of mercury from materials safely underground to the environment.
My experience suggests that a 15 watt "yellow bug light" CFL of wattage around 15 watts outshines a 40 watt incandescent.
If you have a fixture that has yellow glass, I would suggest a roughly
15 watt "outdoor" CFL. Philips makes one available at Home Depot. That one outshines a 40 watt incandescent in enclosed fixtures over a wide range of temperatures including below freezing. Just give it several minutes to warm up when you turn it on!
In a fixture with yellow glass, I would use the 2700K version rather than the 5000K "daylight" version.
Availability of dimmable CFLs is improving - I have seen those at Target most of this year already.
Please tell me what this pulsing is supposed to do, and how.
I have heard some stuff on pulsing LEDs before, lots of times, and I have found most of this to be myth coming from a grain of truth. I discuss this in:
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Ceilings are typically painted white - so the light hitting the ceilings is "recycled" to usefulness.
7 1-watt LEDs each receiving 1 watt will produce about 700 lumens in top premium brightness rank/binning of better part numbers from top manufacturers, and then only with color temperature 4100-6500 K and with color rendering index 65-75, with pie-in-the-sky good heatsinking requiring a heatsink much better than one of "A19 lightbulb size".
The associated circuitry needed will likely increase power consumption by a watt or two.
The 7 1-watt LEDs alone cost $15-$17 in quantities of thousands or
10,000. Even if a "light bulb manufacturer" buys the LEDs a million at a time, I expect their cost alone to translate to retail cost close to $20 after various overheads and markups - not even including the cost of the associated circuitry, the "bulb structure", and assembling costs including circuit board manufacture and soldering and gluing/fastening.
Pulsing LEDs does not provide greater average efficacy, except in some rare situations. Do you have a reference or any data that supports your claim of 50% gain?
Ah. I had assumed we were talking about A-line type lamps. LEDs are directional, and that does create an advantage when used in directional applications, such as recessed cans. (Note that this same directional characteristic is a problem when LEDs are used in non-directional applications, such as table and floor lamps.)
Based on data measured by independent laboratories for the DOE's CALiPER program, and published on the DOE's Solid State Lighting web site, one of the best, if not the very best, LED-based lamps, and one of the few that is more efficient than the CFL equivalent, is the Cree LR6. The Cree data sheet (link at:
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states that the LR6 produces 650 lumens, the same as a
65-watt incandescent reflector lamp, and draws 12 watts. The LR6 sells for a bit under $100 each in small quantities. If you know how to produce the same light output as a
60-watt A-line lamp OR a 60-watt reflector lamp for only 7 watts of power, plus about 0.8 watts for a 90% efficient driver, you qualify for the $10 Million "L Prize," and, if you know how to make this lamp for the cost you claim, you have a wonderful business opportunity waiting for you. Why are you wasting your time here???
--
Vic Roberts
http://www.RobertsResearchInc.com
http://www.cflfacts.com
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12W for 65W would be around 82% efficiency. Current LED technologies are closer to 90%. Some claims 93%, but expensive. However, making a 60W light bulb would be not be easy,
The requirements are for a light bulb shape lumination in all directions. We only claim 60W equivalence in the forward cone and not in the same of a light bulb. The 7W bulb is cone shape, as in spot lights. The round light bulb shape is just arbitrary, not necessary reflecting real needs or desires.
I would rather aim for real customers then the 1 in millions "Prize".
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