Twilight for the fishes, we say goodby to our great Clown Loach.

More laid back than you can imagine. We don't even have to constantly fill our minds with created happiness and created love.

It is more like the spiritual "emptyness" eastern philosophy is talking about as an ideal they are striving for. Freedom from love and hate, freedom from self. This is what people use meditation to try to reach, or yoga.

Even the happiest western people are not really happy in a spiritual way. They are driven. They very often use alcohol for a temporary relief from the "happy" mind they carry around all day. They are workaholics, sex addicts, or have other obsessions.

I understand that it may sound like a guilt trip for the people who have become exstatically happy from created love, and have built their lives on that mental illusion.

The created love is built upon fear, and aggression and conviction to master that fear. That is how social dominance is created. Those who have most conviction and sanction from the community, the friends, have most power over other people's minds. They can control the social life.

The creationist system cannot accept drugs which take away that fear in the minds of people and let them relax and play like children, that would crash the social structure of the creationist society.

The created mind is prone to worshipping and fanaticism. Look at what is happening this week in Rome. Hundreds of thousands of people come to the Vatican from all over the world, to stand there and worship an old man who died a week ago. What are these people doing with their minds? What kind of concussion are they walking around with year after year? What effects does this state of mind have on their own lives and others lives? The creationist system creates a lot of love for many people, a love which can be compared to the high you can get from amphetamine, it is socially created speed.

That is the reason why some children are treated with ritalin or amphetamine to fit better into the society. That is the reason why people drink coffee or smoke. People need to keep up the speed in their brains, or suffer the psychological and social consequences of being too slow and natural in a speedfreak world.

Beside producing a lot of "happy" people the creationist system also produces insane people, social drop-outs, serial killers, criminals, wife beaters, people suffering from neurosis and obsessions, insomnia and irrational fear, mobbing and school shootings, terrorism and racism, and those are just a few of the most obvious problems :-)

That is why we have been trying to abolish creationism for hundreds of years, and we have been successful in abolishing gender based laws, honor based laws, the power of the church, but we still have a lot to do in the real life social field. These old traditions are still strong among common people. Hereditary sin is still taught to the next generation in many families.

--
Roger J.
Reply to
Roger Johansson
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I read in sci.electronics.design that Roger Johansson wrote (in ) about 'OT: Thread Hijack: Drugs vs. War', on Thu, 7 Apr 2005:

... such as s.e.d. And whaddya mean, 'or'??

--
Regards, John Woodgate, OOO - Own Opinions Only.
There are two sides to every question, except
'What is a Moebius strip?'
http://www.jmwa.demon.co.uk Also see http://www.isce.org.uk
Reply to
John Woodgate

Without an explicit qualifier "or" is assumed to mean a non-exclusive OR function. So don't worry, I have you covered.

--
Roger J.
Reply to
Roger Johansson

What you've said is very close to what's actually been going on, but it's difficult to present the whole story because of how deeply imprinted the original imprints are.

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Love, Rich

for further information, please visit

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Reply to
Rich The Philosophizer

Pooh, don't be such a dingnuts. The guilt trip is what got erroneously put into place as a replacement for Love, and we've been saddled with the wrong god ever since.

The point is to let the guilt simply cease to exist, by refraining from holding it in place with its concomitant judgments and denials.

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Love, Rich

for further information, please visit

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Reply to
Rich The Philosophizer

Exactly. It takes 15 minutes to explain it all, but it usually takes years to break through the individual defence mechanisms, trained ideology and pure stupidity which prevent people from understanding it.

They also bounce back in a scary way, probably after getting a new dosis of female conviction.

It is easier with very intelligent people who spend a lifetime learning new concepts, like doctors.

Yes, I found that site interesting too, and funny, but I prefer clear language to symbolism.

You need a pretty excited brain to understand symbolism. Clear language requires no effort.

The truth will make us free :-)

--
Roger J.
Reply to
Roger Johansson

Fine but whose version of the truth do you plan to use ?

Graham

Reply to
Pooh Bear

Roger, you are a philosopher. You must be looking like the famous "Thinker" by Rodin. The head utterly heavy, supported by the arm, he has become one with the rock he's sitting on. You are repeating parrot-like what others have written: Buddha, Osho, Gurdjeff. Hey, this is not intelligence, this is being a Pharisee. And those were so caught up in their knowledge, they missed the enlightened man, Jesus. Worse, they even cruzified him.

Your mind is heavy enough, try to be light instead. Dance, sing, celebrate. Enjoy existence. Be again like a child, playful.

--
Love and ciao
Ban
Bordighera, Italy
Reply to
Ban

Since there is no objective truth in the modern world, after the theology and their idea of god-given absolute thruths were thrown out of science and philosophy, we can only discuss and compare our subjective truths, and come to agreement on what we think.

This process works well in fields were most participators in the process are telling the truth, as well as they can, like in physics, electronics etc..

In the social field it gets more complicated, as we live in a culture based on secrets, lies symbolism and misunderstandings.

The grown-ups have secrets for the children, the elders have secrets for the less advanced in social manipulation, a lot of secret manipulation is used to make little girls grow up to women, a lot of violence is used to initiate boys to become men, secret social processes are used to create the eternal love and the holy matrimony, etc..

We can only solve the social and psychological problems of mankind if we start talking openly about these things, in clear language.

What do you know about these things? What has happened to you in this field in your life?

A year ago I saw on german television a news item about what had happened in a school in Poland. A sequence from a video taken from a classroom. Young boys harassing and threatening a teacher.

The video was shown on national television, and a reporter came to the school, interviewed one of the boys.

"But.. That is what we always do when they don't defend themselves.." he explained, like it was the right thing to do, what he had learned from the other boys..

Then he shut up and looked insecure, he realized that what he just said was not the official rule, not in accordance with the laws in Poland, so he got confused.

Youngsters live a complicated life, torn between the official world and its rules about being nice to people, and the inofficial world of rules they have been taught by other people in the social field, rules which define who to harass and why.

The inofficial system are traditions inherited from the stone age, still alive in the social field. The official system is the modern world, the laws and rules based on individual freedom, equality between men and women, democracy instead of theocratic dictatorship, mobbing and eternal love.

What do you know about these things, what secrets can you reveal, how can you help to clear up this intellectual confusion which is the result of thousands of years of creationism?

I'm waiting. You can start telling the truth, your truth, anytime you feel you are ready. When did you stop being a child, and why?

Did you ever have to make up your mind?

"Did you ever have to make up your mind Pick up on one and leave the other behind It's not often easy and not often kind Did you ever have to make up your mind {Refrain 2} Did you ever have to finally decide Say yes to one and let the other one ride There's so many changes and tears you must hide Did you ever have to finally decide.." (John Sebastian, Lovin Spoonful)

--
Roger J.
Reply to
Roger Johansson

You are so right about that. Jesus tried to abolish the church, but the church was a lot stronger than he could understand. They cruzified him, and made up stories about him which made it possible to incorporate him into the church ideolology. His own words is one thing, what others said about him is another thing.

Have you really tried that idea in social life?

I have, and was badly mistreated for being too naive. For being too simple and natural. For not being determined enough. For not playing the social game correctly.

Lightheatedness is not taken well. The social life demands that you know a lot and behave according to certain rules.

Maybe you were born rich, and have lived a sheltered and manipulated life so you do not know how rough life really is in the social field?

My father didn't like the society, so we lived in the forest and I grew up in peace of mind as a child.

It was a shock for me when I started school, because the other boys wanted to punch me in my face and wrestle with me, which was probably the natural way to play for them. They had been trained in using rough ways.

When I was 15 we had to move into town, into an apartment. The first day we heard loud thumping noises from the neighbor above, he was a weight-lifter and he was training.

My father went into the kitchen with my mother for an hour, then walked through the hall carrying two bottles of beer, and he went up to visit our neighbor.

He was up there for half an hour and came back.

We never heard any sound from above again, not a single sound for the two years we lived there.

I have had problems with neighbors myself, so I have of course thought about that event, wondering what my father said or did to get rid of the problem so effectively.

I see that weightlifter guy every time I go to the food store. He is always out on town, and still looks like a weightlifter.

Last time I saw him he tried to look weak and small. I ignored him as usual. I don't care what he looks like, I only care about what he does. I just think what a lucky man he is. We have laws in this country.

I don't like that he forced my father to do something he did not want to do, something he had lived in the forest for many years to avoid.

--
Roger J.
Reply to
Roger Johansson

I read in sci.electronics.design that Roger Johansson wrote (in ) about 'OT: Thread Hijack: Drugs vs. War - was: Re: Twilight for the fishes, we say goodby to our great Clown Loach.', on Fri, 8 Apr 2005:

This is like the 'We are all guilty.' thing. Of course there are objective truths. 100 cents make a dollar and 100 other cents make a Euro.

But there are all sorts of questions to which there CANNOT BE an 'objectively true' answer, so there is no point in agonizing over the search for one. Start from 'Who was the best classical composer?'

--
Regards, John Woodgate, OOO - Own Opinions Only.
There are two sides to every question, except
'What is a Moebius strip?'
http://www.jmwa.demon.co.uk Also see http://www.isce.org.uk
Reply to
John Woodgate

I'm using this one:

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--
Cheers! 
Rich

for further information, please visit http://www.godchannel.com
Reply to
Rich The Philosophizer

CPE Bach. Next question.

Reply to
Paul Burke

Okay, fine, but that is a web page filled with ideology you obviously have chosen to believe in. It is filled with terms which can mean different things to different people.

It is not your personal experiences and the story of your life. It is not the story of how your mind has evolved during your life.

It is not the truth about how you have interacted socially and become influenced during your life, and what conclusions and decisions you have made, how you became who you are today.

--
Roger J.
Reply to
Roger Johansson

You have a mathematical proof? If not, it's not an objective truth.

--
Regards, John Woodgate, OOO - Own Opinions Only.
There are two sides to every question, except
'What is a Moebius strip?'
http://www.jmwa.demon.co.uk Also see http://www.isce.org.uk
Reply to
John Woodgate

Naaaah! Tie between Mozart and JS Bach!

...Jim Thompson

-- | James E.Thompson, P.E. | mens | | Analog Innovations, Inc. | et | | Analog/Mixed-Signal ASIC's and Discrete Systems | manus | | Phoenix, Arizona Voice:(480)460-2350 | | | E-mail Address at Website Fax:(480)460-2142 | Brass Rat | |

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| 1962 | I love to cook with wine. Sometimes I even put it in the food.

Reply to
Jim Thompson

--
And what you write isn't?  From the anecdote you related about your
father and the upstairs neighbor, and the rest of your rants, the
picture I get of you is that of an embittered soul weighed down with
beliefs and opinions which you seem to consider absolute and are
dismayed that the rest of the world doesn't. YMMV.
Reply to
John Fields

If we are to understand how the social world works, and how old traditions are forming us, causing a lot of problems for mankind, we cannot just find justification for what we are today and for our current lifestyle. We have to compare our individual experiences and our mental development, finding out why we have become what we are, why some people become alcoholics, wife beaters, serial killers, happy married men, unhappy 14 year old girls running away from home, angry young men who beat up others in the street, etc.,

But he doesn't describe how he got there, what personal experiences led him to draw what conclusions and make what decisions along the way.

He is just describing the ideology he needs today, and that doesn't explain much about why he wants/needs that ideology today. It does not help us understand how he and his social environment work and how it forms and shapes people's minds.

--
Roger J.
Reply to
Roger Johansson

And when you learn to understand what's presented at that website, plus possibly other sources, it explains all of that stuff, and what we need to do to fix it.

No, but I am considering putting up a blog of some kind so people could read about me if they want to, rather than telling my life story in newsgroup posts. ;-)

Yeah. They say "experience is the best teacher" and all that - I do have some interesting experiences, but it'd be hard to present the context of what I've personally gleaned and where I get my crazy ideas, without it sounding like a big whine. ;-)

Here's what I want: "The Mother's dream is that all beings in Creation experience their true grandeur and greatness. And in their greatness, do whatever they desire. The Mother's deepest desire is that you and everyone else in Our Creation be completely free and empowered to do whatever you want, go wherever you wish and be with whomever you choose.

"At first your mind will have difficulty understanding how this could be possible, but We can assure you it is not only possible, but necessary. Free Will, completely free and joyous in the presence of unwavering loving Light is the truly natural way in our Creation. And this Creation is the basis of your own Creation and the full manifestation of your greatness." - from

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--
Cheers!
Rich

for further information, please visit http://www.godchannel.com
Reply to
Rich The Philosophizer

--- As much as you'd like to believe that it's the "old traditions" which are causing the problems, I can counter with that it's the crumbling of the old traditions that's causing them. Take away the stability of the framework which children experience in a traditional, nurturing, home environment and you wind up with amoral animals bent on little but satisfying their own whims and having no way to gauge the consequences of their actions. Like you. Although its out of your purview, you denigrate as worthless a committment between a man and a woman to bring children into the world to further _their_ views. And you? From what you've written so far I daresay your couplings have been for the purpose of satisfying momentary urges and the unwanted consequences of those unions were dealt with at the expense of your would-be progeny.

---

--- Why should he? As far as I know he owes you nothing and he's not in public therapy here.

Seems like _you_ want to be, though...

---

--- You seem to think that just asking for ammunition will get you the information you need to vanquish your critics.

You haven't yet demonstrated that you're worthy of receiving that data. Ignoring that, the question is why you feel the need to be at odds with your critics.

Oh, yeah, survival. I forgot about that...

-- John Fields Professional Circuit Designer

Reply to
John Fields

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