Those stupid delay dome lights in vehicles

It should be able to do that without draining the battery used for starting the car. My handheld GPS runs continuously on a pair of AAs all day! Something else is going on.

What is so special about Metromile? Are they really cheap? What I paid for insurance last year would barely cover the cost of a good data logger, but that's probably your problem, you need a "good" data logger.

Rick C.

Rick C.

I would think they could get the odometer reading through the OBD2 port, no?

Rick C.

I didn't know that. I can guess(tm) where it comes from. If you've been traveling on a freeway at a constant 50 mph, exit the freeway, park, and turn off the engine, the central computer would have no way to know when you turned off the engine (assuming the data is not time stamped) until the next polling cycle. If they update once per hour, that's an hours worth of 50 mph driving that is added to your history. Offhand, I'm beginning to believe that the system very well designed.

I tried to search for some kind of warning by the various insurance companies about disconnecting the device. Nothing relevant found. I did find this: What Are Insurance Companies Watching? (...) Disconnect: The insurance company finds out whether you uninstall and reinstall the gizmo and if so how many times you do this. Why would they need that info? Unless they are monitoring whether only the back seats are occupied while the engine is off, I can't think of a reason why they would need that information. It's easy enough to tell when the engine is off by monitoring the tachometer. There are plenty of other things that can be monitored. plus a long list of vehicle manufacturer specific PID's. My 2001 Subaru Forester just past a smog test. The mechanic just plugged some kind of giant wireless dongle into the OBD2 port, revved the engine once, and waited until the smog computer was done (about 10 mins). With access to the OBD2 port and a fast data link, the insurance company could probably do a remote smog test.

it doesn't seem like it is mandatory,

fredag den 6. juli 2018 kl. 21.32.33 UTC+2 skrev Jeff Liebermann:

unless you turn the key none of the computers are on, you can't monitor the tacho

It must have been a mistake that they didn't include ignition-switched power in the OBD connector

No output from the tachometer means the engine is off (or the OBD2 dongle is unplugged). I can see how it works on various Android apps such as Torque.

I have a suspicion that the high power drain is because the OBD2 dongle is turning on some black boxes with the engine off. The wireless dongles are only suppose to draw 45ma. A typical small car battery is about 45 amp-hrs, which should discharge to about 50% SoC at 45ma in 450 hrs. So, something else is draining the battery. If I get inspired, I'll try to measure the battery drain with various OBD2 dongles.

I once designed a radio without an on/off switch, so I know how that feels. Using ignition switch power is such an obvious way to power the device, that I'm really surprised it was done with full time power. My guess(tm) is that they wanted the port powered on with the engine off so that it could be used with some kind of production line computer during manufacturing, probably to sense the presence or absence of various black boxes. There are a rather large number of PID's in most cars that are undocumented and are probably used during manufacturing or for troubleshooting.

Of course, there's always a conspiracy theory available to explain how such things happen. Perhaps the NSA paid the auto manufacturers to include continuous power on the OBD2 port so that they could install trackers and voice monitors to spy on the vehicle and its occupants?

A friend used to work for a manufacturer of professional automotive testers. I'll ask him.

fredag den 6. juli 2018 kl. 22.07.21 UTC+2 skrev Jeff Liebermann:

but many things would not be on until you turn the key

a typical ECU is powered from the battery, and ignition-switched power is just used to enable the power supply, the ECU can keep the power on for as long as it needs after the ignition is turned off

the tacho "

Wrongo.

That's quite possible. I'll admit that having the OBD2 dongle turn on one or more black boxes by simply plugging it in is pure speculation. However, at this time, it's my best guess for why the car battery is being drained by something unknown.

Maybe reversing the logic will help. If the OBD2 dongle were drawing more current than the specified 45ma, then it would also need to dissipate the heat produced by the discharge. Draining an approximately 45 amp-hr car battery down to 50% SoC (state of charge) in about 12 hours would require a: 45amp-hrs / 12hrs * 50% = 1.9 amps discharge or: 1.9A * 12V = 22.8 watts If the dongle were dissipating 22.8 watts overnight, it would be rather hot in the morning. So far, nobody has reported a dead battery AND a hot dongle. Therefore, something else is draining the battery and getting warm in the process. My guess(tm) is some black box under the hood.

So, how much power does an ECU draw in normal operation? If it's about 22.8 watts, we might the culprit.

This might help: It's a 5ft long OBD2 extension cable with an inline power on/off switch. $15. However it won't work for me because the connector in my dashboard is recessed too far in to handle the right angle connector. Looks like I'll need to make my own extension cable or butcher a molded connector cable:

You get a lot more hits when you spell it right...

Rick C.

Oh, bullshit! The early Datsuns were all rust buckets, particularly

The only new car I've ever bought (until now) was a Datsun right at the tim e they were taking the Nissan name. It was the biggest piece of crap I've owned other than the several '63 Chevy II's I had before that. The Chevy I I's were ok functionally, but at 100k miles they were totally ragged out, e specially the one with a 2 speed powerglide automatic.

The Datsun had some sort of problem where things in the engine compartment would get too hot, but not the engine coolant. Some tubes that were metali zed paper just crisped up and fell apart. Eventually the engine just quit. The first mechanic wanted to put in a new engine without knowing what was wrong with the old one (they cited low compression readings which won't ma ke the engine just quit). The second shop cited the same low compression u ntil I pointed out that wouldn't make it stop in the middle of the road! T hen they found the rotor button was *melted*!

A while later the manual transmission stuck in fifth gear and I never bothe red to try to fix it. While sitting in front of my house a neighbor backed into it with a big oldsmobile and the insurance company totaled it out not knowing it was ready for the scrap yard anyway. The Olds pinched it again st the curb and kinked the body! lol

Not much of a car I have to say. But it never had the chance to rust out. Every car I've had since then was a big improvement.

Rick C.

ower

Governments have always been very fond of data grabs. They can use them to find crime, terrorists, intelligence info & give them legal & political pow er over people. All governments like those things. So it's not surprising t hat mobile phone operators are legally required to grant governments access to the data streams. And it would surprise me if available vehicle data st reams were not subject to much the same law.

A conspiracy is more than one person plotting together to do something crim inal, which plainly is not what's going on in this case.

o find crime, terrorists, intelligence info & give them legal & political p ower over people. All governments like those things. So it's not surprising that mobile phone operators are legally required to grant governments acce ss to the data streams. And it would surprise me if available vehicle data streams were not subject to much the same law.

iminal, which plainly is not what's going on in this case.

I'm not sure you understand wiretapping. The law requiring the carriers to provide access is a technological issue, not a legal one. In the old days when the only digital voice was on microwave links (which are easy to tap, btw) the government needed a warrant from the court and access to your wir e pair. As more and more of the voice network became digital this access b ecame harder and harder to come by. The phone companies didn't want to see m like they were helping to snoop on their customers, so they encouraged le gislators to pass a law requiring carriers to provide access ports to the g overnment. So in every switching center there is a closet where with a cou rt order a government person can get access to the phone calls covered by t hat order. This was simply required by the advance of technology.

Likewise, a police officer can only access your car data with a court order . Tesla runs into this often. They cooperate with the authorities, but no t without legal protections.

Rick C.

That's one definition. Criminality isn't required to conspire with another. It's a synonym for "collusion" (also not necessarily criminal).

In the meadow we can build a snowman And pretend that he is Parson Brown He'll say are you married We'll say no man But you can do the job When you're in town2

Later on We'll conspire ^^^^^^^^ As we dream by the fire To face unafraid The plans that we've made Walking in a winter wonderland

Violating the 4th amendment of the Constitution is not a crime ?

It is the supreme law of the land and any violation of its terms is therefore a crime.

Dome light? How about an off switch marked "Lights". All lights are needed to be dark when I watch stars with the radio on and the door open. Smart cars do not get this. Dark radio. Dark dash, dark dome... Why not? Is it the Law?

criminal, which plainly is not what's going on in this case. "

fore a crime.

No, actually. This is a guide to running the government and a breach of th e rules may or may not rise to the level of a "crime". A crime specifies a penalty for an offender and the 4th amendment does not specify any penalty , so clearly violating the 4th amendment in and of itself is not a crime.

Rick C.