solar panel output degradation?

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Because most houses don't have yards large enough for a solar array or if they do, it will take up space that they want for other things? Because it would look even worse on the front lawn, than on the front roof? Because the roofs are above things, like the house and the neighbors houses that will block the sun? Geez.

It works just fine being attached to the earth without a building. In fact, the many solar farms do just that without constructing buildings to put them on.

Yep.

"California's solar production was so vast that by 2017, California had to pay Arizona and other states in the region to accept some of its electricity during peak production hours in order to provide relief to its grid."

If you triple this graph's gray line to meet California's peak draw, the problem is obvious:

But don't worry, more taxes will fix just about anything. :-)

Cheers, James

On higher quality monocrystalline panels (Sunpower, Panasonic, LG) the degradation rate is very low, maybe 1% per year. After ten years your output may fall by 10-11%.

On lower quality polycrystalline panels the degradation rate is much higher, 3-5% per year. After ten years your output may fall by 34-63%.

Since the rates are compounded, the useful life of lower quality panels is much shorter. Typically leases will use the lower quality panels.

On Sunday, December 15, 2019 at 11:22:03 AM UTC-8, snipped-for-privacy@yahoo.com wro te:

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That's just a planning issue. We would gladly use their energy if they jus t lower our average cost of 20 to 30 cents per kwh. We are still paying pe ak price when they have peak surplus. Local on site solar panels reduce st ress to the grid. Solar farms increase stress to the grid.

Yep. A yard with a few trees is a lot nicer than a rack of solar panels, and the critters like it better, too. (That's why my deer say, anyhow.)

Cheers, James Arthur

boB wrote in news: snipped-for-privacy@4ax.com:

Depends on what they are charging.

Like when I design and program a new database app, I do a "requirements analysis". That way, the contractor cannot come along at the 80% completion mark and start pulling the "but why doesn't it do this..." crap.

IF I were a "professional" installer, I would utilize the entire gamut of my knowledge to give the customer the best, most robust and longest lasting low maintenance electrical product I possibly could.

Not for long term outdoor. Also ANY added resistance at the get-go or over time takes away from the delivered 'product'.

Ask the SPC cable robotic games guys if they count on standard compression crimps.

You said something about different brands. I would never do that. As you have noted, mismatches are a PITA. There could also be electrical mismatches in the cinch force on the pins. Differing metals could pose oxidation issues.

I would analyze any system I was preparing to put my name behind.

Those manufacturers would not like me much, because I am a low resistance, high current stickler and would likely QA them to the point where they implement new deisgn changes. Sometimes folks even get fired, though that was not my goal. I simply tend to step on toes when I look at a build (of anything) and critique it.

Yup, but they are a minority :)

Yup.

There are some viable bulk storage mechanisms, but they are not available everywhere - principally pumped storage hydro.

There are quite a few at the research and pilot plant stage. Let's hope at least one pans out.

The new fad in California is for cities to forbid natural gas hookups to new construction, residential and commercial and restaurants. Everything must be electric.

That's going to be even more inrteresting.

James Arthur's definition of "viable" is whatever one suits the point he wants to make.

Solar power for remote areas in Australia is perfectly viable with off the shelf battery storage. It's competing with diesel-powered on-site generators which are lot more expensive than regular grid generation.

Australian households are going in for domestic battery banks in a way that suggests they are useful - it's cheaper to store solar power you don't use than it is to sell it to the grid, then buy it back later.

Whether they can store enough power to let you run your washing machine and clothes dryer in the middle of the night is an open question.

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The lithium ion batteries in South Australia do seem to be well beyond the research and pilot plant stage. The first 128 MW.hour unit makes a lot more money out of providing short term grid regulation than it does out of buyi ng up power from the grid when it is cheap and selling it back when it's ex pensive, but it makes quite a lot of money out of that too.

In the long term

seem to be the way to go. There an 800 MW.hour unit being put together in C hina, though there hasn't been any publicity on it's progress since the beg inning of this year.

Yes, that's possibly a problem with constant heating and cooling every day and night. I have never heard of an installer actually soldering those connections after crimping but you certainly could do that.

Multi Contact makes a lot of these MC connectors these days and says not to mix for this reason. That also forces a lot of people to use their brand.

Unfortunately, the different solar panel manufacturers use whatever they use on their MC connectors that come with those modules so you would have to clip them off and add your connectors of choice to make them match.

There was talk earlier this year about a standard so that the different MC connector manufaturers would have to make them such that their inter-connectivity would all match much better than they do now. I'm not sure if that is going to be a thing or not ?

The best way is just to remove the MC4s, solder wires together with a thermal fuse, and enclosed the fuse and joins in a metal junction box.

Hmm, I pay $.075/kWh for electricity. Local solar might reduce the load on the grid but it sure doesn't help its stability.

Even where it is available, it's limited.

Doubtful. It's a scam on the government.

Except the damned deer ate all our cherry trees, hosta, and half the rose bushes (really!). Fortunately they haven't gone after the new azaleas this year (yet).

Might be an OK idea but it won't (likely) pass an electrical inspection and would be one time thing.

Would also be a hassle when trying to troubleshoot an array by removing/replacing modules.

There is now arc fault detection which should help if a series arc should occur.

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China, though there hasn't been any publicity on it's progress since the b eginning of this year.

Interesting. So it would seem the idea of using the type of battery optimi zed for automotive use would not be the optimal cell type for stationary ap plications such as grid energy storage, but rather vanadium redox batteries might be a better solution.

That makes sense. The requirements of stationary batteries and automotive batteries are very different and it would make sense that one would not be a good substitute for the other, especially once the industry matures and f inds the various chemistries that truly optimize each application.

Thanks for pointing this out.