Solar-panel maximum, 6% higher

Winfield Hill wrote in news: snipped-for-privacy@drn.newsguy.com:

So clear, but deadly skies...

Daily production is highly variable - you need to look over one month. My array for the last month produced 1.35 MWH - the same month last year produced 1.41 MWH.

Nice! I've been enjoying the clear skies. I hope the climate modelers are getting some good data on the effect of contrails and other airborne particles. (smog and such) This shut down of the world is an unprecedented test of those models. Maybe flying airplanes around is what wee need to do to help cool the planet?

George H.

This was determined (conclusively I thought) after 9-11 when the US halted all air travel.

So, is this going to warm the Earth more than before the shutdown?

Or maybe we could find a way to not screw it up in the first place? Do ya think???

If the planet were your body and doctors were suggesting they fly airplanes around to spew crap into the atmosphere so as to ward off the effects of mankind spewing crap into the atmosphere... I think you'd find another doctor.

Physician, heal thyself!

--

  Rick C. 

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There are cloudy days, sometimes many in a month. But it's interesting to compare maximum outputs on perfect days. Begging the definition of perfect.

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 Thanks, 
    - Win

I'll take that as a YES.

Win, after 5 years, you have enough data to say how the installation pays off financially. Is it ready for the masses? Would it payoff if there wasn't the 26% federal credit and the Mass. $1,000 or 15%? Let's say that you finance the project, so include finance costs.

Mikek

From what is happening with large scale commercial setups it would seem the basic cost of the panels is low enough to make it practical. That's at wh olesale rates of generation. A home installation will have relatively high er costs for installation than large setups. Still, if I wouldn't need to cut down trees, I would install about 5 kW. More than that and I won't be able to use it. I don't have any confidence in the laws regarding net mete ring not changing in Virginia. I understand one state already tossed that in the dust bin and people are now stuck giving free energy to the utility. I wonder if their setups even have the capability of using solar to reduc e what is drawn from the utility, but not feed any back into the utility? It's not a feature I would have expected to need. But utilities are just l ike every other big corporation. They look out solely for themselves while making it appear they are about promoting the greater good. Any benefit t o the consumers is purely incidental.

--

  Rick C. 

  + Get 1,000 miles of free Supercharging 
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ROI for a solar power system depends upon, at least, these things:

1. Installed cost of the system
2. Cost of power at the location
3. Total solar irradiance for the location and installation, accounting for orientation and shading
4. Government incentives, federal, state and local

NREL

can provide data for (3), which is the tou ghest question. The rest are easily looked up. Obviously, systems located f urther south are more cost effective. Here is one example of an ROI calcula tion:

Scenario #1: US national average electricity rates, installed by a contract or at $1/watt

Let?s assume your household is ?average? in every w ay, using 914 kWh per month billed at a rate of 12.95 cents per kWh.

914 kWh/mo. x 12 months = 10,968 kWh/yr

A 6.9 kW system would completely offset your energy usage. We currently sel l a 6.9 kW SolarEdge / Astronergy system for $10,224.70 (price is current a s of 11/22/2019, the date we published this guide).

A local contractor might charge you $1/watt to install your system, which w orks out to $6,900 for this 6.9 kW (6900-watt) system.

We will also estimate $1,000 to cover permitting and shipping fees.

In total, the cost to install your system is $18,124.70. 26% of that can be claimed under the federal tax credit, a value of $4,712.42.

= 9.44 years

This average location is further south than mine (47? lat with 300 day s of sunshine per year), which 9.80 KWH for an 8 KW system. The example gen erated 29% more power per installed watt. The ROI interval for my location would then be 12.2 years. Our cost of power is much lower, around $.075 per KWH. This extends the ROI period to 21 years, beyond the lifetime of the s ystem.

The only problem I have believing a solar energy system would pay for me is that I only pay around $0.08 a kWHr for electricity. If I get solar they won't let me retain my ToU metering and I'll pay a higher rate for the elec tricity I use. So what I pay now isn't enough to offset the cost of the so lar system unless it runs much longer than a typical comparison.

Rather than go through the issues of calculating kWHr and costs per, the fi rst order estimate is to look at annual bills. The total I paid over the l ast year wasn't even $1000. If a solar system lowered that to $0, it would still be hard to pay back. They won't pay me in cash for the electricity I provide, just offsets to my usage.

Still, I would probably get a system if I wouldn't have to cut down my tree s. I like my trees, they provide shade reducing my cooling bills.

--

  Rick C. 

  -- Get 1,000 miles of free Supercharging 
  -- Tesla referral code - https://ts.la/richard11209

is that I only pay around $0.08 a kWHr for electricity. If I get solar the y won't let me retain my ToU metering and I'll pay a higher rate for the el ectricity I use. So what I pay now isn't enough to offset the cost of the solar system unless it runs much longer than a typical comparison.

first order estimate is to look at annual bills. The total I paid over the last year wasn't even $1000. If a solar system lowered that to $0, it wou ld still be hard to pay back. They won't pay me in cash for the electricit y I provide, just offsets to my usage.

ees. I like my trees, they provide shade reducing my cooling bills.

Forget about solar as an investment - if it makes you feel good, then fine. Shading by trees cuts down on generation and requires more expensive micro inverters, further lengthening ROI period. Solar ONLY worked for me becaus e of EXTREMELY generous state and local incentives rained down on to us by our libtard politicians (which have since been reduced substantially).

Where do you live, that you have such a low rate? We pay nearly 20 cents in MA.

--
 Thanks, 
    - Win

My guess is up around Spokane, WA. It is 47 deg lat and their power, I think, is hydroelectric.

The regular rate would be closer to $0.12 per kWHr. I pay ToU rates where I use very little energy during peak times by turning off the heat/AC. Not really much impact. In the summer the time is a 4 hour window and it does start to feel warmer by the time the rates drop again, 3 to 7 PM I believe . If I had a better thermostat it wouldn't kick in the backup heat when it recovers at the end of the winter period. I can see the high energy use f or the first hour after peak rate ends as the electric coils are fired up s imply because the temperature is more than 1 degree off set point.

If everyone did this it would create a local power peak at the end of the p eak rate times.

The one that is the most annoying is the morning period in the 8 non-summer months. With two 3 hour periods, 6-9am makes the house cold enough that I don't want to get out of bed. But that's ok with me really. lol

I don't factor in the fixed costs and there is a small tax around 1%. I'm including the cost of generation/transmission and the per kWHr distribution charges only plus the power cost adjustment. Adding in the fixed costs wi ll impact the per kWHr rate differently depending on usage and is not relev ant to the issue of lowering costs using solar. The first 300 kWhr is a bi t higher, $0.09 per kWh.

I have a house in Maryland that is about the same at $0.12 which includes a number of taxes and fees which the other location does not pay. Oddly, no where do they tell you how they calculate the bill. They just state the St andard Offer Service rate for various date periods. I believe that include s generation and transmission only.

Anyone know what a Cogeneration PURPA Surcharge is about? I finally found it but it was like pulling teeth to get it.

--

  Rick C. 

  -+ Get 1,000 miles of free Supercharging 
  -+ Tesla referral code - https://ts.la/richard11209

Washington.

The NREL calculator says that my 8 KW system will generate 10.4 MWH in Bost on worth $1,555 a year at $.146 per KW (their estimate) for a south facing array. Your system will cost between $28k and $39k

Using the federal t ax credit of 26% this year (22% next year) your payback is 13 and 19 years, respectively. Of course power rates will continue going up which will shor ten this period (but you panel output will also degrade), and you have to b e paying taxes to use the credit. But this reduces to getting 5-7% ROR. Thi s is OK given current alternative investments, but not eye-popping. And if you don't have a south-facing roof, or you have partial shading by trees, t he payback period and ROR is worse.

Isn't it also cold where you live ?

PV works better with lower temperatute, given that you have sun.