Re: Compuserve closing, need to relocate website

I'm using a Compuserve wizard (HPWiz) homepage wizard which is very easy to use, just select the HTM files on the C drive and upload them. But the root file must have the name Homepage.htm and I have many htm files that link back to the main page of . I also use a basic text editor to create the htm files and JavaScripts.

But I imagine none of those links will work since a new service may have the root file named something else, such as or something like that. So, I have the problem of editing 30 or so pages so that they link back to the main page.

Just little details like that will take hours to fix.

I get a call every couple months or so from ATT to upgrade my dialup service to DSL, and I always tell them to go away because I don't need it. So, today I called ATT to discuss web hosting figuring they would be happy to fill me in on the details, software, etc, but they had no clue what I wanted and didn't understand the term "web hosting". So I went to the ATT site and found a basic service for about $165 a year including domain name registration, but no details on software. But I did find a phone number so I will attempt to discuss the problem tomorrow.

I like big names like ATT, they probabaly won't go away for awhile.

-Bill

Hi Bill,

OK, I expect you'll have no problem using a regular FTP client then. The GUI-based ones look very similar to the regular Windows file explorer, albeit with two panes: "source" and "destination" and you can just drag and drop your files from one side to the other.

Agreed, that is a hassle. With some (perhaps even most) web hosting companies you might not have to do that, though -- if they're using the Apache web server (and the vast majority of them are), and if they let you use ".htaccess" files (these configure how the web server itself operates), just create a file named ".htaccess" (in the same directory as your homepage.html file) containing the line, "DirectoryIndex homepage.html". (I'd think better web hosts would even do this for you for the asking.)

Another option might be to just copy your homepage.html file to one named index.html every time you modify homepage.html -- people intially lang on index.html, but it links correctly to everything else, and then all the links back end up at homepage.html. Kinda hackish, but easy.

There are utilities avaialble that can do "find/replace" across a bunch of files all at once, too.

Some ISP salespeople are not required to actually know what it is they're selling. :-)

---Joel

[...]

$165? Yikes. I pay $60/year including domain name, oodles of email accounts, FTP and so on:

Apply the $105 you'll save towards DSL, it sure is worth it. I am on AT&T DSL. You'll be surprised how fast a fat datasheet PDF zips through.

Because they have secured comfy regional monopolies.

--
Regards, Joerg

http://www.analogconsultants.com/

"gmail" domain blocked because of excessive spam.
Use another domain or send PM.

Thanks for the info Joel. Made some progress today and spoke with AT&T web hosting services, but they couldn't provide details on FTP software and reffered me to tech support. After a 10 minute wait, tech support said to use a FTP program which they didn't provide, I would have to buy, or find free, and they had no recommendations, or how to use it. They claimed the hosting service was similar to a landlord renting apartments who provides space without worrying much how you use it. Very informative.

So, I went looking for FTP programs and found a package called FTP Commander that looks promising: The free version is only 500KB and looks to do all the simple stuff.

Looks like I just need a server name or somesuch, user ID, and password. There is another entry of which can be changed which I don't understand. The screen is split with arrows going both ways for download or upload. Seems simple enough.

ATT said I would get an email of needed details, so I assume I'll get the user name and password and server info. All they want is $164 up front and then work out the problems.

-Bill

The table I'm looking at says that one doesn't have a demo.

e

--thought there are several that are Free Software.

Port 21 is the standard port for FTP.

*-*-*-*-*-*-*-SMTP+8080+80-*-*-*-*-*-H=TTP+23-*-*-*-*-*-*-*-Telnet+mistakenly+53-*-*-*-*-*-*-*-DNS+21-*-*-*-*-*-FT=P+119-*-*-*-*-*-NNTP+caching-*+123-*-*-*-*-*-NTP+110-*-*-*-*-*-POP3+HTTP.Al=ternate+22-*-*-*-*-*-*-*-SSH+829-*-*-*-*-*-CMP+Copyright+194-*-*-*-*-*-IRC+=220-*-*-*-*-*-*-*-IMAP+540-*-*-*-*-*-UUCP&strip=3D1 Maybe someone has a ferinstance when you'd need to alter that.

Sheesh. I suppose that the guy is correct about the "landlord renting apartments" model, but I would also think that any good landlord would be more than happy to help you figure out the dishwasher and furnace, label the breakers in the electrical panel, suggest some good places to eat, a moving company, etc.!

Slightly simplified: When you connect to another machine, beside the server name, the TCP/IP protocol used for the connection also needs a "port number" so that one server can provide multiple "applications" simultaneously. E.g., HTTP for web pages, HTTPS for sercure web pages, FTP for file transfer, POP3 for e-mail, etc. 21 is the "well known" port number for FTP -- at least of publicly accessible Internet machines, it's probably safe to say that over 99% of them are using port 21.

If you're using a web browser, you can specify a port number at the end of the URL. For instance, HTTP normally lives on port 80, but if for some reason someone told you their web server was on port 8080 (a common port while doing development work), you could browse to, e.g.,

.

AT&T's service in general will certainly be fine, but you can pay significantly less and get service that's just as good if not better, IMO. (See the various web hosting services listed in this thread...) I'd be tempted to take Joerg's suggestion and get the $60/year 1and1.com account and then donate $100 to the charity of your choice or somesuch. :-)

---Joel

Windows includes a command-line FTP program (unless it's been removed; it's there in XP).

For a free GUI program, look at FileZilla:

Not sure I understand the billing details at 1and1.com. The intro page indicates a special deal at $2 a month for 6 months and $4 a month after that. But attempting to open a basic account and reviewing charges indicates 11.94 for 6 months and 23.94 after that.

Here is a summary of what you will be billed for the next 12 months: Month 1st 2nd 3rd 4th 5th 6th 7th 8th 9th 10th 11th 12th Package:

1&1 Beginner Package 11.94 -- -- -- -- -- 23.94 -- -- -- -- -- Setup fee 4.99 -- -- -- -- -- -- -- -- -- -- -- Total: 16.93 -- -- -- -- -- 23.94 -- -- -- -- --

All prices are in US dollars.

The billing cycle for the 1&1 Beginner Package is 6 months, payable in advance. Billing cycle for domains is 1 year, payable in advance.

Anyway, made progress with FTP Commander and managed to download a couple text files from anonymous ftp sites and some genealogy place . So, I guess it works, just need a new server ID and password to upload files.

-Bill

Yeah, they're billing you "six months at a time" ... so for the first six months it's $2*6=$12 plus the (not very well advertised!) $5 "setup fee"=$17 (round numbers), and for the second six months it's $4*6=$24.

Sounds like you're doing fine with FTP. You'll be up and running again in no time!

---Joel

Well, my site is on Microsoft Live (yep, the evil empire!) but I did that because it was free the first year, and then only around $15 thereafter...

Has the domain name, the emails, and the webhosting included. Decent tools for the site, plus a whole bunch of web dohickies I don't use.

Charlie

Today I got my 6-month bill. It's always $29.94, since years. Yeah, I could probably shave off a few bucks but as a business expense that's down there in the noise.

[...]

--
Regards, Joerg

http://www.analogconsultants.com/

"gmail" domain blocked because of excessive spam.
Use another domain or send PM.

"The Borg" is a better metaphor.

*-*-*-assimilated

Yup. The first one always is. Any drug pusher knows that.

...and as Paul noted in this thread

*-*-informed+xyz+zzz+*-*-*-were-sold+MSN+*-*-had-domains+qq+*-*-*-no-longer-*-valid+uu+Qwest+jj-jj+rr+*-*-buy-back-*-*-*-*+difficult-to-switchnews: snipped-for-privacy@hovnanian.com that domain name will remain with that host forever.

Yes, that looks right. I might try it just to get things going since it's not a big expense. One question would be, if things don't work out, and I want to move to another service for some reason, how does that effect the domain name operation and links to that name?

I don't imagine there can be more than one location for any domain name, so if I want to move someplace else, do I have to close the old account first and then setup the new? Or how does that work so there are never 2 or more domain names in different places at the same time? How much down time (site doesn't exist, error 404) will occur?

-Bill

Hi Bill,

It'd definitely be worth e-mailing them and asking if you really own the domain registration or not -- it was in this thread that I first heard about the problem where some ISPs will *provide* you with a registration but maintain that *they* still own it. That would really suck!

The important thing to know here is that web site hosting and domain registration are two separate services, and there's no technical reason you have to have both with the same company... it's just usually easier than way. The domain registration itself maps your web site's name (e.g., billbowden.com) to the name servers of your hosting company (e.g., ns1.oneandone.com, which is the machine that actually resolves billbowden.com to an IP address such as 123.45.67.89). If you change your *web hosting* to a different company, you just have to update the "name servers" entry in the registration to point to the new web hosting company's name servers; this is usually done through a web-based interface. (All the web hosting companies these days have fancy web-based "control panels" for administering your web site, domain registrations, etc. When you sign up, they tell you what the URLs are for that control panel, give you a logon name/password, etc.)

Assuming you do want to transfer the registration to a new registrar, ultimately what happens is that you tell the new guys to request a transfer of the domain registration from whoever you signed up with originally. What's then supposed to happen is that those original registrar contacts you and confirms you've authorized the transfer (this is an important step since otherwise everyone would hijack google.com and microsoft.com and point them to their own web sites :-) ). The details of that authorization vary a bit -- sometimes it's just an e-mail that's sent to you by a person, but other times an automated process provides you with an authorization code that you then forward to your new registrar.

If the old web host is still around, if you change the domain registration to point to a new web host, when people enter billbowden.com then for some period up to a couple of days they'll potentially just get your old web site instead of the new one. If you're simultaneously drop your old web host while changing the domain registration and setting up a new web host, then of course they'll get "404 not found" for up to a couple of days.

My experience is that in actuality it usually doesn't take more than a handful of hours (well under a day) for domain registrations to get updated (when I'm connecting from within the U.S. to a web site located within the U.S.), but they always tell you it could be a couple of days because the updates have to literally propagate around the globe... so while all the changes in the U.S. will tend to happen within hours, getting to some name server out in, e.g., rural China can take rather longer.

---Joel

Joel Koltner wrote:

...and, in the meantime, the new location *can* be accessed via numerical address.

ISTM that a day or so before requesting the DNS change, you could do a redirect from the old host to the new one resulting in **zero** deadband. Practical? Anyone done that?

It's probably worth knowing that domain registration, domain hosting and website hosting are all distinct. Many providers will offer to provide all of the above (along with email hosting) as a bundle. If you register the domain through a hosting provider, check the fine print to ensure that you own the domain.

The main factor which determines the time taken to propagate is the TTL (time-to-live) value on the DNS records. This determines how long intermediate DNS servers will cache the record. If a server has a cached record, it will return the cached version to its clients until the TTL has expired. There isn't anything a user or the domain's host can do to accelerate this process once a record has been cached.

If you know that you will soon be modifying DNS records, it's a good idea to reduce the TTL in advance of the change.

Most DNS servers impose minimum and maximum values for a TTL. The maximum value prevents someone from setting a 3-month TTL then screaming at their hosting provider to "do something" about all of the cached records which persist after any change. A minimum TTL limits the load on DNS servers.

Thanks for the info Joel.

But I'm reading bad reports about 1and1.com at:

Other problems are reported about GoDaddy.com at:

Even Yahoo hosting has negative reports:

But, I can't find anything negative about AT&T.

At least at AT&T I can talk to somebody and they seem to know what they are doing. It also fits my phone bill, so everything is included, phone, webhosting, and domain registration in one account. The lady I spoke with said I had excellent credit and was eager to set me up. It's a little more money, but may be worth it.

-Bill

Windows comes with one. It's not particularly flash, being based on something Microsoft took from BSD about 10 years ago, but it meets the definition. (open a command prompt and type "ftp" and press [enter])

on the other hand most wep page editing programs have some sort of FTP capability built in.

*-*-*-*-*-*-*-SMTP+8080+80-*-*-*-*-*-HTTP+23-*-*-*-*-*-*-*-Telnet+mistakenly+53-*-*-*-*-*-*-*-DNS+21-*-*-*-*-*-FTP+119-*-*-*-*-*-NNTP+caching-*+123-*-*-*-*-*-NTP+110-*-*-*-*-*-POP3+HTTP.Alternate+22-*-*-*-*-*-*-*-SSH+829-*-*-*-*-*-CMP+Copyright+194-*-*-*-*-*-IRC+220-*-*-*-*-*-*-*-IMAP+540-*-*-*-*-*-UUCP&strip=1

If someone puts an ftp server on a different port number, perhaps their server is behind a NAT firewall and port 21 on that firewall is already in use?