OT: "We're Americas Natural Gas...." Blah, Blah, Blah...

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Yes, my point exactly. The industrial revolution brought those things to us, and on the scale needed.

My dad pointed out that chlorine's a nasty carcinogenic thing to add to water, but far less dangerous than the things it kills. IOW, a net huge benefit to society. Ditto coal, for example.

-- Cheers, James Arthur

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The world of tradeoffs is not admitted by utopians.

Sloman is typical. He wants everybody else to reduce their CO2 output but can't see any point in doing that himself.

John

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Of course they did. The idiots who "deregulated" the California grid made it irresistible.

John

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Not to mention that we're getting really good at detecting trace elements. "The level of arsenic in water must be 0ppb." Since arsenic is naturally occurring, it's going to be hard for it to be zero.

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They put coal in water??!

(I'm just messin' with you. - Have a nice weekend!)

-mpm

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Maybe poor people, who can't afford coffee.

John

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Well, coke is made out of coal.

What makes you think the people who "deregulated" it were idiots?

I would be quite prepared to consider the equally likely possibility that they knew *exactly* what they were doing and did it at the behest of "Kenny boy" in return for copious political donations from Enron.

US politicians do not serve the people they are supposed to represent and put self first, party second, country third and electorate last.

Regards, Martin Brown

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FFS with the conspiracy theories Martin, we were there. They were big gov. redistribution idiots.

They made the power companies sell their generation plants and become power retailers. The new retailers were required to buy all their power every day from a gov't invented "free" market (Cal ISO) for spot (market) price, and sell at a regulated price. Long-term agreements supply agreements were outlawed, eliminating stability.

That forced everyone into a frantic frenzy to buy energy every day, whatever the cost. That allowed Enron to manipulate things and be confident they'd get their price.

All for the "public good", to "rein in evil profits," "reduce costs to the consumer," blah, blah, blah.

Completely moronic.

It had the opposite effect in every respect, middlemen were required to sell power at a fraction of their cost, they created scarcity rather than abundance, raised prices, not lowered...

The system collapsed almost instantly, and on and on. Gov. Gray Davis then worked an illegal bailout, a long-term contract at outrageous prices, etc., etc.

Some do, some don't. The power thing in California was the same old centralized planning by idiots who've never made anything work in their lives.

Obamacare's the same stuff, dumber. Besides their outright accounting lies, here's the most recent development w.r.t. to their biggest cost- saving scheme:

"But in an unusual rebuke, an umbrella group representing premier organizations such as the Mayo Clinic wrote the administration Wednesday saying that more than 90 percent of its members would not participate, because the rules as written are so onerous it would be nearly impossible for them to succeed."

Note: this letter is from groups that supported Obama-Pelosi-care.

We're from the government, we're here to help...

-- Cheers, James Arthur

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And an idea worthy of serious consideration.