It got down to -7C last night here. My outside water tap has a length of this foam self seal around the 15 mm copper pipe. The foam on mine is 50 mm overall diameter and the tap is enclosed in a polystyrene box that came with a vase inside. It's simply fastened with an elastic band round the tap, through the styrene and a pencil through the band outside. Mine does not get direct sunlight but if it does then some turkey foil around it will solve that problem.
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Best Regards:
Baron.
Huh? Is 35* with a 5 mph wind (windchill of 31*) going to freeze water in a pipe faster than 35* with no wind?
Mikek
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Your problem is you fail to observe all the factors working here. Like that the wind there is rarely a mere 5 mph, and average ambient is charted against a constant temperature wind. These wind currents are chilled below ambient ground temp, so spright standing apparatus does chill faster than the standard chart, so yes, a boxed vertical rise from the ground would suffer far less chilling, than an exposed one, and any heat it emmanates would get 'contained' within said box as well, further raising your claimed ambient figure.
Yes. Boxing it would be better.
You dodged amdx' question.
pipe/vessel... free standing water... possibly, depending on the dew point.
Wind chill is for humans... if, for instance, you can define someone who chooses to live in Chicago, "human" >:-} ...Jim Thompson
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| James E.Thompson | mens |
| Analog Innovations | et |
| Analog/Mixed-Signal ASIC's and Discrete Systems | manus |
| San Tan Valley, AZ 85142 Skype: skypeanalog | |
| Voice:(480)460-2350 Fax: Available upon request | Brass Rat |
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I love to cook with wine. Sometimes I even put it in the food.
The whole reason a trailer needs the tape is because the pipes going into the trailer are all exposed for several feet, under the "windy" trailer belly.
This is why they got shrouds, and why they got hot tape. A shrouded trailer works down to a certain temp.
Wind chill 'factor' characterizations by "weathermen" is for humans.
Wind chill itself is very real. Water chiller air conditioning systems count on it. Latent heat is a mother, and boundary layer breach by the breeze puts that into perspective.
The entire way a heatsink with fins operates is by wind carrying off the heated boundary layer air over the radiating metal fins. Otherwise, we could just use thick slugs as heat sinks, and they would not be misting water into a breeze they blow over football players on hot game days.
The air striking the pipe carries away what little boundary layer heated air it might have "on it", and most certainly chills the pipe.
Paint it black, and the hot summer sun will have the opposite effect on the exposed pipe's contents.
Put it in a white, insulated box, and it stabilizes between both influences far better than being fully exposed to both does.
In regular daily use, and with you only worrying about a few morning hours, it should always be above that cold morning temp, as it will not have time to settle in as it will be losing heat a lot slower.
Sorry, but wind chill is real. We have had ice ages that prove it succinctly, and iconoclastic flows that show it in a different range, scale, and direction.
It is wind which slowly allowed the Earth to cool from a hot, orange red molten mess to the point where water started pooling, and the base nucleotide soup could get started that made us.
By the same token, without it, we would be as barren and cold as Mars by now and likely also an essentially water free planetoid.
We needed all those comets. Probably needed that big impact that made the moon as well.
But for daily temp swings, a box and a blanket should do fine. I find homeless folks bundled up in or near boxes all the time. Humans are pretty good transducers. Folks just need to know how to interpret the data such that it produces useable information. Data without processing is just data. Information is discernable, processed data. Wind chill is very real.
You need to stick with electronics, wind speed most certainly accounts for heat loss from pipes, which is mainly by convection and radiation, conducti on into the surrounding air is not significant.
The lengths some people will go to find a date...
"convection" feature of the oven.
Sonovagun! Who would have guessed ?>:-} ...Jim Thompson
-- | James E.Thompson | mens | | Analog Innovations | et | | Analog/Mixed-Signal ASIC's and Discrete Systems | manus | | San Tan Valley, AZ 85142 Skype: skypeanalog | | | Voice:(480)460-2350 Fax: Available upon request | Brass Rat | | E-mail Icon at
No. At 35F, water isn't going to freeze (unless there are some extreme radiation losses). At 15F, wind does make a difference. It will chill the pipe faster but more importantly, it can push enough cold air under the house to freeze the pipe. If the crawl space is closed, he's got no problem anyway.
The funny part is that you'll never succeed, and even funnier still that you keep trying.
NO!
No means no, f*****ad. Now FOAD!, BloggsTard.
As Jim said, he lives in Arizona, his coldest is just before sunrise most likely many hours since anyone has caused any water to flow* through the pipes. The water has had many hours to reach ambient temperature. Blowing ambient temperature across it at 15mph isn't going to change the temp. He needs to put a heat tape on it, with a thermostat and insulate around the whole thing to hold the heat in. It's not worth hoping there is enough heat stored in the ground to prevent freezing. Two winters ago I started water dripping in the outdoor plumbing to an ice machine, it wasn't enough. I split the side of a 1/4" copper tubing to one of them and a pipe got pushed loose inside the machine. Pain in the butt fixing things in tight areas, just for one cold night. I'm in NW Fl.
Did you notice there is a new and an old windchill chart. Physics changed!
Mikek
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yep.
How will the temperature of a pipe holding 35 degree water in a
35 degree walk in freezer change when I cause a 20 mph wind? Mikek-- This email has been checked for viruses by Avast antivirus software. http://www.avast.com
[snip]
Mikek, Let it go, it's not worth debating with a stump that believes in magical physics ;-)
Faster air cools down to _that_air_temperature_ faster, NOT cooler. ...Jim Thompson
--
| James E.Thompson | mens |
| Analog Innovations | et |
| Analog/Mixed-Signal ASIC's and Discrete Systems | manus |
| San Tan Valley, AZ 85142 Skype: skypeanalog | |
| Voice:(480)460-2350 Fax: Available upon request | Brass Rat |
| E-mail Icon at http://www.analog-innovations.com | 1962 |
I love to cook with wine. Sometimes I even put it in the food.
I have my tank fill valve set such that it takes about a half an hour to fill the tank back up.
If you do not have a household full of folks full of shit first thing in the morning, you do not need a friggin' 30 second tank refill event spiking all the pipes with the valve toggles. If you do need a re-flush sooner, just reach down and open the valve back up for that fill event, and then reset it to "return you to your normally scheduled programming".
Easy Greasy
Other things I do is I 'drip fill' my transport vessel that I use between my tap and my water purification filter tank. There is nearly always a trickle going, and nothing wasted, save what little bit more evaporates due to the long open tank fill sequences.
Here is a neat trick... A 7 second zap in the microwave of your two slices of bread before toasting them heats them on the inside first, which makes the entire toast session faster, allowing you to cycle your toaster faster and still have the same exterior browning and interior heat.
That one should make the Popular Mechanics' tip page, if they still had one.
I also have ways to save industrial businesses and manufacturers billions of dollars a year.
What I lack is a podium and a forum.
Like the idiot "Hulk"'s idiot son said... "I need a real-ality TV show".
Yeah... I could use that. Give you guys more to laugh at, right? The real-ality comedian.
We could start off the first week with at least one episode devoted to "the light bulb in the box 'trick'", which you all came to hate me over. Right, Keith?
That depends on where the wind was introduced from, how the pipe is situated. That copper pipe is radiating if it is above abs zero so that wind can 'drag' that heat off that copper surface.
You gave the standing chamber cavity temp and the item temp, but failed to state what the temp of the blowing wind is or where you got it. The chamber size, wall R factor and exterior temp matter too. Unless you are referring to some idealized chamber, it will be constantly losing or gaining heat and the air inside will not all be of a homogeneous temperature.
Why are HV caps "kept" on the shelf with a shorting wire between the terminals? What condition(s) affects the amount of charge they can pick up out of the air?
How does a laser super cool a superconducting crucible cavity to just above abs zero simply by 'grazing against' the item being chilled?
Also, it will change either up or down based on the exterior temp, because if you cause a 20 mph wind, I'm leaving the test area and leaving the door open when I go.
-- No. At 35F ambient and 1 atmosphere, water at 35F won't freeze. Period. John Fields Professional Circuit Designer
You forgot the esoteric AGW effect >:-} ...Jim Thompson
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| James E.Thompson | mens |
| Analog Innovations | et |
| Analog/Mixed-Signal ASIC's and Discrete Systems | manus |
| San Tan Valley, AZ 85142 Skype: skypeanalog | |
| Voice:(480)460-2350 Fax: Available upon request | Brass Rat |
| E-mail Icon at http://www.analog-innovations.com | 1962 |
I love to cook with wine. Sometimes I even put it in the food.
I wanted to turn on a fan in the walkin freezer, but then you would want to calculate heat from the motor. I tried to make it a simple 20 mph wind, it didn't work. Mikek
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I do not think there is a pressure at which it would at that temp.
Water deep in the ocean even far colder then freezing does not (salt and movement related though), but hotter than boiling does not boil either (pressure related).
I do not think merely pressurizing it would freeze it. Put some in a nitrogen vessel for welding before filling it, and even at 3000 psi, it is still liquidous inside... at that temp.
Ambient temp only matters if there is a settling period included.
Does water ejected into space instantly freeze, or does it have to lose the heat it has with it first?
No... It instantly gassifies. I'll bet it still has all of its latent heat though. Pack it all back together and it is warm. Compressed air isn't hot from the friction of the compressor. It is hot because the heat of a cubic yard of air was just placed into a space the size of 27 cubic inches.
So, above freezing ambient water at high pressure, is still water. At low pressure, becomes a gas.. at 1 atm? Nope... still "above" freezing "point".
It's that "table of elements" thing they spent the last couple centuries getting down. Not sure atmospheric pressure matters in some of those constants. Isn't the melting point for Gold in space the same as it is for when it is here, sitting under all this air?
Yep... you're right.
the deep oceans are generally close to 4'C that's where water is most dense
water is special because it take up more space frozen than liquid so increasing the pressure lowers the freezing temperature (slightly)
-Lasse
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