OT: Petrol consumption

conditions.

See: "The Big Dig"

--
  Keith

No, they fall off the roofs of tunnels. At least with the trees it is reasonable to expect critters to run out in front of you occasionally.

...

hmmm. i wonder if Keith doesn't like Vermont and/or New York???

r b-j

You forgot Massa2shits ;-)

...Jim Thompson

-- | James E.Thompson, P.E. | mens | | Analog Innovations, Inc. | et | | Analog/Mixed-Signal ASIC's and Discrete Systems | manus | | Phoenix, Arizona Voice:(480)460-2350 | | | E-mail Address at Website Fax:(480)460-2142 | Brass Rat | |

| 1962 | I love to cook with wine. Sometimes I even put it in the food.

and Bushit. i'd stay clear of that if it were possible. (unfortunately, it is not at present.)

r b-j

Nope, let me count the ways...

1) Too blue. 2) They're in business to try to out tax Taxyourtwoshits. 3) Looney leftist weenies in government . . .

Even so, I try particularly hard to avoid Bastan and the rest of TY2S. ...at least the sky isn't falling in Vermont (though you wouldn't know it listening to the weenies).

--
  Keith

i guess the sky ain't falling here, but if you can put up with the mosquitoes that a natural environment has, this place is pretty nice for us weenies.

in the summer, i get to go canoeing out of an inlet (actually a pond connected to an inlet through innundated woods) in my back yard right into the Lake or Winooski river and into other really cool natural areas (a sorta natural waterpark). i walk about 100 yards and get to swim in a pretty clean lake. some people have sailboats. nice bike routes. comfortable summer temps. there are mountains at both east and west horizons that are a blast to drive to (about 30 min for Mt. Mansfield) and climb. and i live in the biggest town in the state (it's not very big but is pretty much where the art, culture, and technology corridor is, unless you go down around Dartmouth - more academic weenies there) so my kids go to good schools of a decent size.

in the winter i get to nordic ski out my back yard into that same waterpark (but frozen over with snow covering it). if that is too

2-dimensional, i can pack the skis and drive to the same mountains and ski around there. if you like to spend money, much of the best skiing outside of the west is here. some nice ski resorts in Stowe & Killington.

in the fall the leaf season is stunning. people drive here from all over for car vacations in the fall just to see the place light up in color and the motels/hotels seldom have vacancies.

in the spring is maple sugaring season. maple syrup is about $30/gallon if you look around.

people move here and don't move away because of the quality of life and it's gorgeous. except for the altitude, it's like living in Breckenridge CO or similar (but less expensive for housing).

and being a Deaniac, the politics suit me fine here. unlike 48 other states, we have virtually universal health care here and people move here for that reason. we have a law that bans billboards from the sky. no commercial billboards blocking mountain or lake views.

the culture is kinda cool and eclectic, kinda like CA but without as many air-heads. people here are smart enough to know that Bush and his ilk are really bad and the majority of us knew that from the beginning (remember the bogus "compassionate conservative").

you can keep your tax pittence and drive your gas-guzzling SUV in 8 lane traffic that moves at 5 m.p.h. in some town that is ridiculously hot in the summer and has no winter sports with corrupt politicians like the Bushies and/or Delay and i and my kids will keep our quality of life.

r b-j

...

Fess up, Robert, how much did you get paid for that blurb? :-)

Actually, I know the area pretty well, so I know you're right. My all-time favorite family campsite is site # 5 at Putts* Pond State Forest just across the lake. (Some miles inland, actually, off 74 past Ti at Chilson.) We spent a lot of time there. My cousin Marty Jezer lived In Brattleboro and wrote a weekly column for the paper. Have you read any of his books? (I'm obliquely referred to in one.) Look him up.

There's a lot to see around there. Penfield Pond, at Ironville (between Chilson and Crown Point) used to be a source of bog iron. What's left of the smeltery is Penfield Museum; they have what they claim to be the first commercially used electric motor. It works kind of like a steam engine, with a solenoid replacing the steam cylinder, IIRC. On a dirt road back in the woods, we came on a herd of Scottish Highland cattle. (I thought I knew cows, but these looked more like water buffalo than any I'd seen.) It turned out that the "farm" was a reform school, with housing in tepees and plywood geodesic domes. The kids (all boys) were polite and friendly: not many people came down that road, fewer stopped. After that, we bought out veggies and dairy there. The money went into a fund for the group to spend as they decided.

You're talking about a bit of heaven in that part of the country.

Jerry

P.S. There's a resort at Schroon (pronounced Skroon) Lake that advertised heavily in bus and subway posters in NYC in the 40's. I guess there were too many snide comments in those days of the Hayes Office, and they spelled the name "Scaroon Lake Lodge". I bet people did it anyway.

A little south, there's a place where one can walk (all right, wade) west from New York into Vermont. I'm glad the border wars are over. __________________________________

• The local name. Some maps call it Putnam Pond.

--
Engineering is the art of making what you want from things you can get.
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Since when do you hit Vermont by walking west anywhere in NY?

Near 22 on this map?

robert bristow-johnson wrote: > we have a law that bans billboards from the sky.

Which is why VT rented billboards in NH last year advertising their new seatbelt law. For the life of me, I can't figure out why they put them in Concord! It's a bit of a haul up I-89 from here to the VT border.

--
Jim Thomas            Principal Applications Engineer  Bittware, Inc
jthomas@bittware.com  http://www.bittware.com    (603) 226-0404 x536
The real fun of living wisely is that you get to be smug about it. - Hobbes

wow. i didn't know that. that is really funny.

i know there are billboards on I-89 around Lebanon advertizing something-or-'nother in VT, but i wouldn't expect the state to be paying for billboards around Concord. that seems really odd.

no shit.

bestest,

r b-j

well, they offered me money not to do it (we don't need the Seattle syndrome to happen here and there are places, like Burlington, that have an acute *shortage* of housing, so we don't need people to move up here, unless you're bringing jobs for VTers with you) but i did it anyway.

yeah, but if any of them New Yorkers come up and tell us our land titles aren't valid and *they* own the dirt our houses/farms are on, we still shoot them. a kinda odd consequence of this Ethan Allen heritage is that, although VT has become pretty liberal in recent decades, it hasn't always been so and this is a big 2nd-Amendment state. a non-felon can carry a concealed gun nearly anyplace legally (not courthouse, jail, nor federal buildings inc. post office) AND WITHOUT ANY PERMIT. do that in NYC and get caught and your ass is in the slam.

r b-j

I don't mean the tax holdouts, I'm talking about battling militias. There were skirmishes along the NY-VT border, and also along the PA-NY border, 20 miles on the NY side of the border north of Port Jervis.

The tax holdouts played both sides. When revenuers from Albany came to collect, they said they were Vermonters and shot the ones who didn't go away. When revenuers from Montpelier came to collect, they said they were New Yorkers and shot the ones who didn't go away. For quite a while, they _did_ have it both ways. (I guess neither way puts it better.)

Jerry

--
Engineering is the art of making what you want from things you can get.
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I recall when the billboards were first banned that there was suddenly a long string of them erected on the NH side of the river, visible from I89, advertising various VT tourist traps.

I'll tell you what. Give me a few months (to sell my house) and you can have my share of Vermont taxes too.

Burlington? Blech! I've only been there once in five years and that was North Ave. "Technology corridor"? Certainly you jest!

I have a ski trail through the back of my property too. It was sorta nice to see a couple of moose on it last winter, but other than that...

Ok, that's a weekend of pretty, followed by 30 crappy ones.

You're getting ripped off, bit who the hell can eat a gallon of maple syrup in a lifetime?

Here is one who is just about to move away. Too many weenies who like huge taxes.

Figures. The lack of sun is known to cause such insanity.

Good plan. Tax everyone with a job through the nose so those without get a free ride. The feedback on this is the only thing that's positive. Yep, you are a Deaniac (Yeaahhhhh!).

No. I don't remember anything bogus about it.

You have a very narrow view of this huge country! You can keep Vermont.

--
  Keith

...

When the kids were still home, we used about a gallon a year. My supermarket sells an inferior maple syrup for about $7 a pint. You do the math.

I bought some in Kingston*, Ontario that was a real bargain. $28 Canadian for a Canadian gallon.

...

Jerry ___________________________________

• On Sunday in the fall, the parking lot in front of City Hall becomes a farmer's market. It always surprises me that the walkways aren't wet with drool.

--
Engineering is the art of making what you want from things you can get.
¯¯¯¯¯¯¯¯¯¯¯¯¯¯¯¯¯¯¯¯¯¯¯¯¯¯¯¯¯¯¯¯¯¯¯¯¯¯¯¯¯¯¯¯¯¯¯¯¯¯¯¯¯¯¯¯¯¯¯¯¯¯¯¯¯¯¯¯¯¯¯

I see it- that little penis shaped area- must be real cold up there...

^ +--- But just *WHAT* is "inferior" ? [ "'s are significant ;]

I remember my first/last/ONLY attempt to purchase *REAL* "maple syrup" for my pancakes. In my early 20's, I wanted syrup like my mother always used.

Well, I found something LABELED: "100% Pure Grade A Vermont Maple Syrup"

It had all the flavor of "lukewarm dishwater".

I would equate "Grade A Light Amber et al" to "Karo syrup" [if still in production] [with requisite amount of food coloring]

I've just done a brief Google search re maple syrup grading.

Evidently "Grade A" means nothing MORE/LESS than "unadulterated". In fact

implies that to have taste of "maple syrup" you must use "Grade B". [BUT who knows what might be suspended/dissolved in it?]

Looks like industry warped FDA for their convenience while shooting themselves in the foot ;}

PS Any member of Maple Syrup/Sugar industry may quote this in its

*ENTIRETY* as desired. Abstracting will bring MUCH WRATH!!!!!