OT: Penny per page?

It's not prophesy and it's nothing really new. Go to any retail cell phone store and watch it in action. The only difference is that they have some local inventory of the stuff they can't move. Want a junk phone now, or do you want to wait to have the good phones delivered to your home? It wouldn't take much imagination to replace the clueless sales people with a ordering kiosk. Try to think of it as a soda vending machine, with cell phones inside and where you might pay the bill with your old cell phone using NFC (near filed communications).

About 10 years ago, we had some mail order only company decide to go retail. They opened up a retail version of a catalog store. I think JC Penny did the same thing in some shopping centers. The idea was to give the customers something better to look at than a catalog photo. As I mentioned, there was one of everything on display, usually glued or screwed to a pedestal. There were no touch screens, but a cruder manual method involving a paper order list. It failed only because the margins on catalog mail order was higher than this retail version.

Oddly, it's really a throwback to the bad old days when we bought groceries and hardware in roughly the same manner[1]. There are still hardware stores that work that way (i.e. the local Felton Hardware). You go to the counter and ask the clerk to get you a box of 16 penny nails from the back. No self service allowed. It cuts down on shoplifting, insures that the customer gets the right stuff, and offers knowledgeable service, something that's seriously lacking in todays retail environment. However, it would not take much imagination to replace the helpful clerk with a computah terminal and a robotic warehouse or a fulfillment house.

There are ways to avoid the demise of retail, but the GUM (great unwashed masses) have demonstrated repeatedly that they don't care. The American consumerist wants cheap, cares little about quality, and will tolerate all manner of abuse and insults in order to obtain the absolute cheapest price. Those with surplus capital might be able to afford the perceived luxury of self-service and the myth of quality products, but the overwhelming majority of the GUM just want cheap.

Eliminating the retail clerk, and hiding the inventory to reduce theft is just the first step. Use your imagination. How about when 3D printing finally makes it into the home? Perhaps, print a sample of some gizmo to see if it will fit before you buy? Or maybe just print the actual product or make one with your desktop foundry? Need a new suit? Just stand in front of the camera, which digitizes your measurements, and delivers a perfect fit every time. I haven't even mentioned the possibilities of virtual reality.

Just take two soma pills and everything will seem just fine.

[1] The first self-service store was Clarence Saunders and his Piggly Wiggly stores in 1916.

--
Jeff Liebermann     jeffl@cruzio.com 
150 Felker St #D    http://www.LearnByDestroying.com 
Santa Cruz CA 95060 http://802.11junk.com 
Skype: JeffLiebermann     AE6KS    831-336-2558

I wanted a Galaxy S3 smartphone but was a bit concerned at how big it was. Whether it would fit in a pocket, hand etc. I normally buy such things online but I thought I would give the local store a chance, at least I could physically handle the thing. I knew I would have to pay a bit more, but was willing to do that.

They had the S3, it was strapped down to some housebrick sized thing that was chained to the wall. You could pick up the housebrick if you wanted.

So I ordered it from Amazon as usual.

Oh the other one was a "PC World" store, probably the largest retail computer chain here. They had a colour inkjet for £19.99 - and next to it was the £19.99 USB cable. I can just imagine my mum going in there and buying the set from the nice sales person. **ckers.

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John Devereux

Or... Go to any Home Depot. Find the hardware aisle. Look in any bin. You will find that practically every bin has a mix of parts and sizes when it is clearly intended to hold a single size. Imagine finding 2-inch fende r washers mixed in with the bin that's supposed to have 1/4-20 hex bolts!

I don't shop there now because of this.

But when I did shop there, not only did you have to rummage through their s tock to find what you needed, you got the "pleasure" of ringing it up yours elf in the self-checkout line (which worked about as well as their self-ser vice bin system).

In the future, I predict they will have their customers stock the shelves t oo. That way, it's true self-service end-to-end. (Same with gas stations, I suppose?) Any one remember when they used to give out dishes and towels with fill-ups? Or S&H Green Stamps?

Oh, before I forget, even if the local Home Depot offered a better customer shopping experience, you'd still need to know about six different language s in order to communicate with their staff. The most prevalent being some abrasive mixture of Spanglish and Creole.

-mpm

A few years ago, the local lumber yards, which all operated retail hardware stores, were considering closing some of those retail stores. That's because during the building boom of the 1990's, most of their business and profits were from contractors, which had little need or use for the full service retail environment. They would submit a bill of materials, get an estimate, haggle, and have it all waiting or delivered.

The collapse of the real estate speculation and building market forced the lumber yards to retain the retail stores. At this time, retail constitutes the yards major revenue source. To keep labor costs in line, most have switched to True Value branding, which has many advantages, one of which is NOT quality. The merchandise is generally of mediocre quality. The cost savings also hasn't materialized as the necessary remodeling and expansions to handle their required stocking has caused the prices to rise substantially in the last few years.

When Home Depot opened in the area, there were predictions of the closing of the local hardware stores. That didn't happen mostly because Home Depot created many of its own problems without any outside assistance. My favorite was a rather irritating wood dust problem when they first opened and which somewhat persists to this day. During the remodeling of the building, the schedule was so tight, that they had stocked the store before the roof was done. The result was the falling wood dust ended up all over everything, including inside the bins. At the bottom of every bin and stuck to every tamper proof plastic package was a layer of sawdust. Much of the standing merchandise was also covered with dust on opening day. It took several years before anyone bothered to air hose or vacuum the store.

--
Jeff Liebermann     jeffl@cruzio.com 
150 Felker St #D    http://www.LearnByDestroying.com 
Santa Cruz CA 95060 http://802.11junk.com 
Skype: JeffLiebermann     AE6KS    831-336-2558

If HD sucked as bad as some people claim, there wouldn't be any dust in any HD location. :)

I don't they _ever_ dust the shelves. Every HD I've ever been in was filthy. ...Jim Thompson

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| James E.Thompson, CTO                            |    mens     | 
| Analog Innovations, Inc.                         |     et      | 
| Analog/Mixed-Signal ASIC's and Discrete Systems  |    manus    | 
| Phoenix, Arizona  85048    Skype: Contacts Only  |             | 
| Voice:(480)460-2350  Fax: Available upon request |  Brass Rat  | 
| E-mail Icon at http://www.analog-innovations.com |    1962     | 
              
I love to cook with wine.     Sometimes I even put it in the food.

Really? I've only been to the local Home Despot and actually witnessed them working on the roof without any covering over the merchandise[1]. I can't believe that they would repeat the same mistake in every Home Despot, but I guess dumber things are possible.

Incidentally, the local store has about eight self-service checkout stations. Typically at least two of them have "otto order" signs on them. Sign of things to come in the automated retail environment of the future.

[1] Incidentally, one of my favorite methods of "dusting" around the house is with my air compressor. Wearing a dust mask, I simply blow the dust off the shelves and eventually onto the floor, where I use a vacuum cleaner. Blowing air is more efficient, easier, and quicker than dragging the vacuum cleaner behind the books, test equipment, computah junk, storage boxes, and general clutter. Soon, every home will have an air compressor. The cleaning service in my office building thinks I'm nuts, but I convinced them to try it. Too much noise was the common complaint.

--
Jeff Liebermann     jeffl@cruzio.com 
150 Felker St #D    http://www.LearnByDestroying.com 
Santa Cruz CA 95060 http://802.11junk.com 
Skype: JeffLiebermann     AE6KS    831-336-2558

Lowe's self-service checkouts don't give me my company discount... I have to go thru a manned station :-(

A buddy/former employee... a bachelor, naturally... does "Spring cleaning" by opening a window on the far end of the house, turning on his evap cooler, air only, then walks around the house with his compressor hose ;-) ...Jim Thompson

--
| James E.Thompson, CTO                            |    mens     | 
| Analog Innovations, Inc.                         |     et      | 
| Analog/Mixed-Signal ASIC's and Discrete Systems  |    manus    | 
| Phoenix, Arizona  85048    Skype: Contacts Only  |             | 
| Voice:(480)460-2350  Fax: Available upon request |  Brass Rat  | 
| E-mail Icon at http://www.analog-innovations.com |    1962     | 
              
I love to cook with wine.     Sometimes I even put it in the food.

What's the problem? That's what we have now, except that BestBuy doesn't get paid for their display model. There are many things that I *only* buy locally because I want to see and touch one before buying. Though it wouldn't surprise me in this day of instant gratification to see retail go the other way.

This is actually an OLD business model. I remember several stores (Service Merchandise?) that were basically catalog stores with a few things on display. You went in, made you selections, noted them on a form provided, and went to the checkout. The clerk entered the form, you paid for it, and then went over to a pick up area where your order came down from the warehouse.

I remember Service Merchandise. I never liked them, because they were almost always out of stock on whatever I wanted. You knew it would be out of stock, if it was on sale. That was in Ohio in the mid '80s, and Florida in the early '90s.

You don't understand. They WANT it to look like a warehouse. The owners threw a hissy fit when their employees cleaned up the first store, prior to it's grand opening. They felt people would think it was a retail store, without skid marks from forklifts and stuff piled high on shelves.

You don't remember Service Merchandise, do you? They aren't around anymore. They did pretty much what you describe and obviously it didn't work in the long run. It was a little different, the warehouse was in the back of the store and you waited for your stuff. Still, that's better than waiting days for the UPS guy.

I think the real limitation of any retail store is just size... yes, believe it or not the big box stores are not *big* enough. They can't display as much as eBay sells, not by a long shot!

But then maybe the online stores aren't all that big after all?

Rick

Because they're not around anymore doesn't mean the model didn't work. They sold crap and it wasn't cheap. IOW, mismanaged.

eBay? Try Amazon. At least they sell stuff worth buying.

Huh? Amazon.com isn't an online store?

when it is clearly intended to hold a single size. Imagine finding

2-inch fender washers mixed in with the bin that's supposed to have 1/4-20 hex bolts!

Poor baby, that was an issue back in the 1960s and 1070s as well.

their stock to find what you needed, you got the "pleasure" of ringing it up yourself in the self-checkout line (which worked about as well as their self-service bin system).

Gosh, i still don't have to do that.

shelves too. That way, it's true self-service end-to-end. (Same with gas stations, I suppose?) Any one remember when they used to give out dishes and towels with fill-ups? Or S&H Green Stamps?

If you remember that and your memory is accurate you would also remember "gas wars" which were a form of collusion of the major vendors intended to put the lower priced "independents" out of business. It only worked partially.

customer shopping experience, you'd still need to know about six different languages in order to communicate with their staff. The most prevalent being some abrasive mixture of Spanglish and Creole.

That must vary by locale, locally if they don't have good enough English or Spanish they don't last

Some are bigger than others, but online shopping is more like a ultra-super-giga-mall; hundreds of anchor stores, maybe a million shops of various sizes, and hundreds distributors for the several various product classes, plus many OEMs and such. Need signs? Tools? Lighting? Stickers? T-shirts (esp. custom printed)? EL-wire? It's all there.

Actually watermarking is usually one of the few things that doesn't bother me. Most the rest of the "It's ours, keep away", and rabid DMCA like (guilty until proven innocent) stuff p*sses me off. I feel like finding the CEO and slapping the heck out of 'm, then explaining don't piss off your customers with this data sheet crap if you want to sell your parts. (A variant of make the problem theirs and they might respond.)

?-)

drum.

printers.

swish

it

pass.

At my workplace they have some HP 6015s (i think that is the right model number) that will do about 12 pages a minute full color with a standard four drum design.

?-)

is clearly intended to hold a single size. Imagine finding 2-inch fender washers mixed in with the bin that's supposed to have 1/4-20 hex bolts!

Actually, I was in Lowes just the other day and found exactly this. The

1/2 inch standard washers bin was full of galvanized washers. I took two to the counter along with the other stuff I was buying and refused to pay the price for galvanized when this was all that was in the bin for the regular washers. They ended up having someone find the right parts.

I find they don't notice if I'm not in the store. I think I have more impact on their methods if I am in the store and make a point of problems they have.

Likewise I was in Walmart a few times looking for cat litter. All the big boxes were on the bottom shelf with no price labels. I'm *not* hauling 24 lbs. of stinking cat litter to one of those scanners to get a stinking price. I put it in the cart and got a price at the counter, then said it was too high so I didn't want it. I explained about the missing labels and when the clerk didn't seem to get that it needed to be reported I asked for a manager. She seemed to care and the next time I went in the cat litter had shelf labels.

stock to find what you needed, you got the "pleasure" of ringing it up yourself in the self-checkout line (which worked about as well as their self-service bin system).

That way, it's true self-service end-to-end. (Same with gas stations, I suppose?) Any one remember when they used to give out dishes and towels with fill-ups? Or S&H Green Stamps?

shopping experience, you'd still need to know about six different languages in order to communicate with their staff. The most prevalent being some abrasive mixture of Spanglish and Creole.

I don't know about the stores around you, but the ones here seem to care if you speak with a manager. I had trouble finding what I needed in the electrical department and was told they hadn't had a department manager in electrical for four months. I guess that can mess things up, eh?

Rick