OT: Make a limited XP account without losing settings?

The Unix file structure is based upon the way that filesystems are mounted at "mount points", rather than the DOS/Windows system of "drives".

Frequently, /usr, /var, /tmp, and /usr/local are distinct filesystems.

On a network, each server often mounts /usr from a central NFS fileserver. This will typically be read-only, so even someone with "root" access on a client system will be unable to modify it. Even on a stand-alone system, /usr may be a separate drive (on an internet-facing server, this drive may be read-only in case someone manages to hack the system).

/var has to be writable; it typically contains log files, mail spools, etc. On a network, /var may be on the local disc, or a central NFS fileserver may have a separate export for each workstation's local /var.

/tmp also has to be writable. Unlike /var, it doesn't have to be preserved across reboots, so it could even be a RAM disc. But it's more likely to be on a local disc, and may be erased upon reboot (to avoid it filling up with stale temporary files).

/usr/local may also be a separate filesystem. The "local" refers to the fact that it's for use by the local administration; on a clean installation, it will be empty. It allows the IT department to install software without having to worry about it getting trashed if they upgrade or re-install the OS.

/bin, /sbin and /lib typically contain low-level utilities (and their associated dynamic libraries), such as those which are needed to boot the system and enable networking, so that /usr can be mounted via NFS. Normal binaries and libraries are in /usr/bin, /usr/sbin and /usr/lib.

Except for /tmp wit hsticky bit ;)

Grant.

Yes, you say that much clearer than I did, thanks :)

Grant.

Usually I do that. I have a directory "Programs", then sub-directories "Electric", "Editors", Utilities" and so on. Works fine. But occasionally programs come with a crippled installer and will only install under the Windows default "Program Files".

I know, and that's another reason why I prefer Windows. I do analog and RF engineering. So I neither have the inclination nor the time to piece together this, that and the other thing, re-write stuff here and there, and then compile.

Even Windows (usually) lets you decide where to put a program. Unless the program installer is written very restrictively which sometimes is the case with CAD.

Question is: Do I want to be?

With a properly configured installer I can write it to just about anywhere on Windows. Unfortunately one must live with the installer the CAD company furnishes.

I don't want to compile :-)

xdm/ xkb/

This was said by hardcore Linux users. And yes, I am using Ubuntu.

Well, since you know Linux well you might want to look into gEDA then. It's ok for digital stuff, just IMHO not for hardcore RF and analog. There is a good newsgroup for it:

gmane.comp.cad.geda.user

Another open source CAD that I think is even better is Kicad, which AFAIR comes in Windows and Linux installer versions. So you don't have to compile anything.

Wow, last time I saw 8" floppies was on a Racal Redac CAD system that ran on a VAX. But I couldn't get reasonable time-slots on it so drew my (large) schematic by hand.

Wait until the road ices up, that when the "fun" begins in an automatic :-)

--
Regards, Joerg

http://www.analogconsultants.com/

"gmail" domain blocked because of excessive spam.
Use another domain or send PM.

I am the only user here. My wife doesn't do CAD and the Shepherd, the Rottie and the Labrador show no interest in computers at all. Unless it makes a cat sound :-)

Trashing is a sign of very poor program design, a warning sign that lots of other things may be wrong with that CAD as well. Whenever I updated Cadsoft Eagle it never trashed anything. Golden rule in CAD: _Never_ alter a stock library. You must make your own. Mine always start with "j" and there are no others like that.

Well, that's where XP falls somewhat short of expectations. So does Linux, IMHO. NT4 was better in that respect.

--
Regards, Joerg

http://www.analogconsultants.com/

"gmail" domain blocked because of excessive spam.
Use another domain or send PM.

Thanks Mr. Nobody -- while I do use Linux a bit here and there, I'm not experienced enough to know what the thinking was behind the way the file structure is built and I appreciate your explanation there.

Today's "average Linux user" -- who's just installing, e.g., Ubuntu on a single machine that's typically only used by a few people at most -- is likely to be a little overwhelmed by all the "large scale" thinking that went into

*NIX's design -- particularly when coming form a Windows background, which started as a single-user system and tends to kick and scream a bit when dragged into a multi-user scenario (particularly simultaneous multiple users via, e.g., Windows Terminal Server).

I think I slightly prefer the "one big directory structure" approach of *NIX rather than a bunch of drive letters, although I can see pros and cons of each. It's rather annoying that under, e.g., GNOME, sure, you can use the file explorer to wander around a Samba-based network, but if you open up, say, \\MyServer\\SomeShare\foo.txt, when you then turn around and fire up OpenOffice Writer the actual Unix path is now something like ~/.gvfs/MyServer/SomeShare/foo.txt -- few applications will let you type in, e.g., smb://MyServer/SomeShare/foo.txt directly. Most annoying... :-(

---Joel

That's really more "broken" than "restrictive." :-)

ORCAD doesn't work quite right if you install it into a directory that has spaces in the path... including, of course, "c:\program files." (By default it wants to install to something like c:\cadence\spb_16.5.)

This fact alone suggests to me that there's a serious problem with the folks in charge of developing and maintaining ORCAD (...long file names/those with space in them started with Windows 95 in... 1995...); they've really got to be scrapping the bottom of the Windows programmers barrel!

---Joel

I try to stick with the old DOS rules when setting up directories and never put spaces in there. That way, in a pinch, I can get into things with DOS plus a NTFS converter routine. DOS was written by smart people who thought ahead. Even if the directory name is messed up it replaces the end with a tilde and not throw in the towel.

It seems that "modern" is not always good. I say that from experience with "modern" programs, analyzers, scopes, ovens, cars, dishwashers ...

I gave up on Orcad a long, long time ago. Not as many crashes as Acrobat, but too many for my taste. Cadsoft Eagle never crashes.

--
Regards, Joerg

http://www.analogconsultants.com/

"gmail" domain blocked because of excessive spam.
Use another domain or send PM.

Cadence is noted for buying and (attempting) destroying good competitive products.

In my opinion OrCAD Capture is the biggest piece of excrement on the market. ...Jim Thompson

--
| James E.Thompson, CTO                            |    mens     |
| Analog Innovations, Inc.                         |     et      |
| Analog/Mixed-Signal ASIC's and Discrete Systems  |    manus    |
| Phoenix, Arizona  85048    Skype: Contacts Only  |             |
| Voice:(480)460-2350  Fax: Available upon request |  Brass Rat  |
| E-mail Icon at http://www.analog-innovations.com |    1962     |

                   Spice is like a sports car... 
     Performance only as good as the person behind the wheel.

xdm/ xkb/

Windows always had that issue of mixing programs and data. And the silly idea that made any file executable by associating the filetype with a program.

Unix is fundamentally different, in that if you sent me a raw script, it would not be executable until I told it to be. It's difficult to convey this basic and simple idea across to someone grew up with ms-dos + windows.

Linux is inherently safer, when one follows the rules of mostly acting through a user account. However, the last few year's of populist *ubuntu advertising has produced a heap of Linux users with no clue as to 'normal' operation of a unix-like OS. The ubuntu crowd sometimes tried to contribute to linux, but there suggestions came way too late, the issues were already solved.

On top of all that, instead of creating their own distro, they simply repackage Debian. That makes ubuntu yet another useless derivative distro, only they got some notice because anybody, anywhere could write and ask for a couple hundred CDs delivered free, to use as bird scare reflectors on their orchards ;^)

There's a lot of very scientific tools on Linux, via the university unix labs and engineering or math depts.

But windows still lets you mix program and data, you cannot run windows from a CD, you cannot run windows securely.

sometimes, sometimes not -- because there is a standard to follow, large applications are distributed as precompiled binaries, the ones I'm likely to use are well behaved: vmware, java, the web browsers.

Because compiling large apps is time consuming. Debian acts as the repository for most of the free Linux software, even I don't use Debian, I may find a source tarball there and compile it for my Linux box.

Compiling from source is what gives users freedom with unix-like OS.

Can modify the source too.

Yup. But you're not seeing the point about not doing any damage to the OS?

Know what modern windows do now? They keep each different version of a .dll ever produced available on the OS disk, just so the program works with the various toolchains they've released over the years.

If you're running Vista or Win7, do a right-click -> properties on c:\windows\winsxs, where this madness resides on your hard drive.

On this win7 x64 box I type on, there's 42,421 files consuming 6.38GB disk space, call that efficient, good, sane? Windows is falling apart when they need this type of workaround to stay around. MSFT is simply not able to draw a line in the sand and start at some new point.

I can install Slackware x64 complete with several desktops, application suites and full compiler toolset on about the same space windows uses just to perform its application fixups with.

Every time we Linux users update to a later version of out favourite distro, we get a brand new set of libraries, and all the applications are compiled against that know set of libraries. The windows binary only plus backwards compatibility is groaning at the seams and only practical because of the low price of memory -- but windows users pay a performance price for that mess, which gets bigger and worse over time.

Ahh, you really do want to run on automatic ;') Anyway, you don't have to compile. That's why you use a distro, they compile most everything for you, and large apps will provide a precompiled package (.rpm, .deb) for the biggie distros, plus a generic binary tarball that'll work on most distros.

xdm/ xkb/

Hardcore? Nah, just people who appreciate the difference between a toy OS trying to grow up to be unix, and the 'real' thing. Even Apple is running unix now (their 'new' OS is based on the *BSD code).

If don't do much RF, do some analog where I care about the layout, and some digital where I care a little less about layout, and power stuff that might be as bad as RF?

Okay, thanks.

Compiling is not evil :) Can be time consuming for large apps though.

I compile small apps, as it takes about the same effort as installing precompiled, and I get to choose where it goes.

Oh, my cp/m box was only for programming, we were still doing layouts with tape and donuts back then -- by hand on over a 2x 0.1" grid on a lightbox. But I was doing layouts like that for years, once or twice did a red/blue double-sided layout, not so easy -- but the company had lots of the red/blue tapes, so I tried it.

My first look at CAD was pcad, on a '286 PC-AT running at 6MHz, with the full 640kB of memory (we had to import a 128kB full slot memory card before the CAD program would load, boss bought the PC-ATs on grey market before their official release in .au).

No snow where I live :) We do get some black ice. I had more fun in the wet with my last car, manual with a limited slip diff :)

Driving in rain this morning, only problem was putting the foot down too hard on accel pedal and losing acceleration, not enough to drift sideways very far though. Just the usual surprise how slippery the roads are when wet.

Anyway, compiling your own stuff on Linux is like driving a manual, easy to do once you see how simple it usually is :)

But for large apps, a waste of time, they're usually a binary install to sensible places, /usr/local (most common), /usr (though might interfere with system), /opt/app_name (usually freeform, outside the rules or conventions) and /home/username, which is only good if there's no data or libs to be shared with other users.

Stuff under /home/username is also restricted on what system services it can access.

My, much OT writing here...

Grant.

What, you'd like to type in "smb://MyServer/SomeShare/foo.txt" to your web browser and have it connect to the local filesystem and find it, offer editing or word processing?

Wonder if this is where Google is heading for? A new and different view of the OS? Might even make sense...

Grant.

No, it is because modern Orcad uses Allegro as the PCB side of things, and Allegro is largely developed on Unix workstations where such things were/are verbotten. Since there is code in these things that is MUCH older than '95, you need to be careful about spaces and long filenames... ;-)

Charlie

There's people who grew up in DOS and (grudgingly) Windows who are perfectly happy with that arrangement.

In California birds are more high-tech and remain completely unfazed by dangling CDs, depending on the code on there :-)

In academia, yes. Industry, not. Mainly because lots of connected hardware simply won't run under Linux and because the PC architecture supports legacy stuff. Well, at least up to XP it does so people stick with XP until they fix the "modern" OSes.

It's quite safe in a VM. Other than that it's all a matter of discipline. Yeah, some fluffy web sites won't properly run on this here PC but every time the anti-virus SW runs I get zero warnings.

True, sometimes I miss that. Often cosmetic things such as a hideous typo in one program where they wrote mHz but it's really meggeehoitzes.

But for us non-programmers a re-write and re-compile is a rather daunting task. My world is trainsistahs :-)

A well respected software won't, and I am rather picky about what I'll let onto the PC. I was never the type that needed the latest and greatest gizmo right away. For example, it took us until this week Friday when we will become able to do DVD-recordings from TV-channels. And only because the VCR begins to fall apart.

Simple solution for me: I drew the line in the sand myself, with XP. I successfully sat out Vista and may just as well sit out Win7 unless it gets fixed. Meaning able to properly run all legacy SW.

I guess that's why Synaptic exists, for us non-programmers. And I have to say, installing a new SW under Linux that way sure is easier than with Windows. Check a box, wait a little, done.

xdm/ xkb/

Ok, but Apple has no market share to write home about in industry and engineering. They do with journalists though.

It'll probably be ok as long as you do not need to hardcode opamp or transistor array instantiations. IOW where it would be ok if the auto-annotation routine turns U3A into U7B and U3B into U13A. It's just that people like me usually can't have that happen.

I've done it myself, years ago, bought the Microsoft C compiler for hundreds of bucks. Worked. But I usually don't have the time and I get stuck much easier with software writing than someone like you who is obviously proficient in it. A bad or not found header file would already throw me a curve.

My first really heavy CAD use was with Futurenet-Dash on the original IBM-PC. Yup, at 4.77MHz CPU clock. Worked like a champ.

Yeah, but it could help younger engineers get up to speed. Thanks for explaining things.

--
Regards, Joerg

http://www.analogconsultants.com/

"gmail" domain blocked because of excessive spam.
Use another domain or send PM.

Not quite -- I want to be able to type in smb://MyServer/SomeShare/foo.txt into *OpenOffice* or *GEdit* and have it work.

And since Gnome conveniently places icons for Samba mounts on your desktop, I'd like those links to show up in the file dialogs of OpenOffice, etc. (just like shortcuts in Windows do) -- which they don't.

Oh, and while I'm complaining about file requestor dialogs, it sure would be nice if they were rather more consistent -- in Windows it's a *very* rare program that doesn't use the stock system file requestor, yet apparently on

*NIX there is no such stock Widget, so you have a large handful of different ones... some let you create, rename, copy, and perform other operations on files while they're open (as Windows does -- heck, Windows will let you open up a new file in an entirely different program, if it strikes your fancy, from a Save As... file requestor!), whereas some won't. Most annoying -- you have to adjust your thinking to the "lowest common denominator."

I certainly wouldn't object to typing it into FireFox and having it fire up the program associated with text files... I think it pretty much already does that; I was amazed that I could browse to http://SomeServer/stream.mp3 (a raw MP3 stream) and it already had a plug-in that started playing music from within the browser.

---Joel

Someone with a much stronger Unix background than I will have to chime in and mention when most Unices began supporting (file systems with) spaces in filenames. I don't recall if the ones I used in school back in the early '90s did or not, but by the time I was playing with Linux on PCs about a decade later they all sure did!*

I don't expect software houses to always provide "zero day" support for new features within an OS; I realize these things can take significant time when you have a lot of legacy code. It's just that we're talking FIFTEEN YEARS now -- I would be so horribly embarassed to work for or manage a company that took that long to get around to updating their code...

Do you get free maintenance upgrades to ORCAD for life as a former employee, Charlie? :-)

---Joel

• I do remember, back in 1990, one professor who was bucking the trend at the university and had his lab machines running VMS when the rest of campus was some flavor of Unix or a Microsoft OS. I played with it for a couple of hours and was quite convinced I didn't want much more to do with it... and I'm almost positive it didn't support spaces in filenames. :-)

[snip]

I'm not sure that OrCAD upgrades are a desirable thing. When I noticed them trying to neuter PSpice I stopped paying the annual maintenance fee and held-up at v15.7 for the simulator and made my own patches to PSpice Schematics.

[snip] ...Jim Thompson

--
| James E.Thompson, CTO                            |    mens     |
| Analog Innovations, Inc.                         |     et      |
| Analog/Mixed-Signal ASIC's and Discrete Systems  |    manus    |
| Phoenix, Arizona  85048    Skype: Contacts Only  |             |
| Voice:(480)460-2350  Fax: Available upon request |  Brass Rat  |
| E-mail Icon at http://www.analog-innovations.com |    1962     |

                   Spice is like a sports car... 
     Performance only as good as the person behind the wheel.

Hi Jim,

"Jim Thompson" wrote in message news: snipped-for-privacy@4ax.com...

I recall a couple? years ago you were actively searching for PSpice replacements. I take it you never found anything particularly suitable?

It's just dumb on Cadence's part to neuter PSpice...

---Joel

There are many simulators that are just as good... after-all the basis is always Berkeley Spice :-)

The catches are Schematic Capture and Post-Processing.

For me I haven't found anything that comes close to working as good as old original MicroSim Schematics... and it's VERY smoothly hierarchical.

And PSpice Probe is the "cat's meow" for creating the "pretty pictures" that the customers want to see to prove that a chip's expected performance meets specification.

Around SED, though, "specification" seems to be a dirty word :-( ...Jim Thompson

--
| James E.Thompson, CTO                            |    mens     |
| Analog Innovations, Inc.                         |     et      |
| Analog/Mixed-Signal ASIC's and Discrete Systems  |    manus    |
| Phoenix, Arizona  85048    Skype: Contacts Only  |             |
| Voice:(480)460-2350  Fax: Available upon request |  Brass Rat  |
| E-mail Icon at http://www.analog-innovations.com |    1962     |

                   Spice is like a sports car... 
     Performance only as good as the person behind the wheel.