OT: Health care in other countries

I was paying almost $1K per month for $5K deductible health insurance, before I became "old" ;-)

In the past I've done some arm twisting. The most amusing was a dispute with the dental insurance over wisdom teeth extraction for the kids. Insurance would only pay "If hospitalized". I said, "OK" ;-)

The insurance company decided the dentist could do it in his office ;-)

My present dentist give 15% discount for cash, check or debit card. Full ticket for insurance-based. Won't take credit cards.

...Jim Thompson

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| James E.Thompson, P.E.                           |    mens     |
| Analog Innovations, Inc.                         |     et      |
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With all this hope and change, all you need is a dab of mayonaisse
and you\'ll have a tasty lunch on which you will choke to death.

But if you are unlucky, uninsured and do have capital assets how much of them do you get to keep? As I understand it as a private individual without medical insurance in the USA you get ripped off big time (and even with it the fees are extortionate).

Doesn't that say something terrible about the basic routine healthcare system? Shouldn't a decent health system maintain a healthy population?

Or is it OK to let the poor suffer through lack of proper education? A decent quality education is something else in the US that can only be bought. USian friends are forever moaning about it (especially now the pound has slumped against the dollar).

At least in part social factors an unwillingnes to bother the doctor. And NICE is somewhat stingy with the eyewateringly expensive but effective newest anti-cancer drugs like Avastin too. As I recall the differences are significant considering that the UK has a very active research community in the field.

Belgium and Japan both have pretty good survival rates. The Japanese one is particularly amazing since so many people chain smoke. Their annual health checks are somewhat invasive especially in the chemical industry.

Regards, Martin Brown

Absolutely not. It reflects the choices people make. How exactly would you have us stop fat people overeating? Outlaw forks?

But as that goes, kindly show us your system getting better results from like populations.

Sure. But the healthcare system can't make people do things they don't want to do. Not in the US, anyway.

That is not the case.

Bollocks. You and I previously compared the price of university education, and found the USA was cheaper for big-name institutions. The US is _very cheap_ for local institutions.

These details are irrelevant anyhow.

The main lack-of-education problem is the ~1/3rd of students who drop out of high school--which is FREE. The 2nd order problem is what's taught to those who stay.

And none of these, nor poverty, force people to overeat.

Cheers, James Arthur

You could always stop TV advertising junk food to children.

Big problem here is more to do with cheap alcohol. Scotland is on the verge of putting a minimum price on it. It is currently possible to buy more cheap alcohol than an adult could drink safely in week for $4.

Not surprisingly the drinks industry is upset about this proposal.

The 2003 24 hour drunkeness act was sponsored by our politicians with shares in "vertical drinking establishments" where the policy is "gerritdownyerneck" until the punter falls over.

But you have to ask why do they *want* to have type II diabetes, wrecked kneecaps and damaged hips. Or is it that no-one explained the risks to them. It is a matter of public education. I can't believe the US population is that stupid.

Oh but it is. A decent education in the US is only available if you live in the right expensive neighbourhood and/or can go to a private school. A talented kid from a poor neighbourhood stands little or no chance.

That was at $2 = £1 the equation has shifted somewhat. The most expensive top class UK universities like Oxford and Cambridge charge around £3145/year for tuition fees. Remind me what Harvard or MIT wants.

That seems like a very high drop out rate. But you seem to be admitting here that the US public education system for under 18s is pretty dire.

What does then? The USA leads the world where morbid obesity is concerned.

Regards, Martin Brown

No, we can't. That's the First Amendment, in action. Freedumb of speech. They have a right to say it. But we're not required to listen.

Ah but you /do/ believe we're that stupid. You believe our people are so stupid they don't understand overeating makes you fat. Unless they're told differently by the government, that is.

Well we /do/ know it, the government /does/ tell us, and the sell-i-vision warns us constantly too. With the average American now watching >151 hours of sell-i-vision monthly [*], that serves ample notice.

[*]

Not so. In California all schools get /exactly/ the same funding per student, regardless of neighborhood. And yet some schools work, and others don't.

Of the many, many successful people in my life, I can't think of even ONE who was NOT poor, from a modest neighborhood, my family included.

The best-funded districts in the country have by far the worst test scores, e.g. Washington D.C.

"In America a prestigious school like UCLA charges about $7,800 a year + books, while an excellent but less-known engineering school like Cal State Long Beach charges about $3,100 a year + books.

How much is it in the U.K. ?

James Arthur"

And junior colleges are roughly $1,000/year. You can spend your first two years in one of those, then transfer.

It's free. They drop out of their own choosing. And why not? There's always the dole, ever ready.

Nothing forces them. And nothing forces teens to have kids out of wedlock, thus giving birth to high-risk babies, and increasing infant mortalities.

No, the dole that makes that a possible, and even an accepted career choice. Ergo Octomom. But that series of events doesn't prove poor healthcare. Show us that your system gets better results for equal inputs.

Kindly show us the UK's results in comparable populations. Show us your system's infant mortality rate for teens, and that your infant mortality figure includes the same rate of this high-risk phenomenon.

James Arthur

And you are kvetching about American alcohol abuse?? We are doing far better than you on the legal side.

Not really true. My current boss is an immigrant and had to learn English while attending High School. Got a BSEE from Cal. Poly. (Pomona), absolutely no money from the parents (they did not have it).

Fresh data form Oxford itself:

But that is just tuition, please note just how much higher it is for (Graduate level) "visiting" students. Local student subsidies are quite apparent. Please note that this is just tuition, no books, no room and board, no other fees. Not that US schools do not do the same.

Many politicians and others are claiming to have the explaination and the solution but none of them have worked for some 40 years now.

Yes, we are a little ahead of Europe and the UK.