OT Gambling

Yep. Alabama had no legal gambling, except for a little parimutuel betting (dogs and horses by remote feed). The Democrats let their friends have a few casinos (illegally) but as soon as the Republicans took the Governorship, he closed them all (went around the Attorney General). After the Republicans took both houses, it was made permanent. The crooks had been swept out of state government.

Gambling is *big* in Oz. More pervasive and accepted. I suspect a significant fraction of the population would be considered "gamblers". Much moreso than here (states).

And, while still a regulated industry there, the regulations seem to be considerably looser than here. E.g., designing for any of the big US venues and getting a machine certified for legal use is a much steeper hill to climb.

I don't think its that the (technical) requirements are much different. Rather, it seems to be one of attitude. Here, you need to be a big player with a fair bit of skin in the game to enter the market. There, it seems more tolerable (you don't need to be a $100M corporation to be "credible")

And gambling is neither moral or immoral.

Just stupid.

--

John Devereux

Hmm I was in Perth WA in ~1985. (Me mums home town.) I don't recall any s lot machines there, but we did go to the horse races. Which is the only t ype of gambling (except for poker) that I've engaged in. But going to the horse races is more about watching the horses (and ladies in big hats) than gambling.

If the wiki figures Fred quoted above are to be believed then Oz with 23 mi llion does $5b ~ $220 each and we in the US do $100b or about $300 each. I wonder if that's profits or total money bet. (Profits!) (dang that's obs cene.)

George H.

More important things to drink ^H^H^H^H do? :>

Hopefully that will be the worst of it! *And*, she'll call (instead of putting herself at risk).

When I look back at much of my "youth" I shudder: "What the hell was I *thinking*???" Obviously, "something" must protect fools from their folly! :<

I smoked heavier and longer. But, walked away from them ~25 years ago. Cold Chicago morning with ~12 inches of new snow. No cigarettes. Choices:

- shovel driveway and drive to store

- trudge down unshoveled sidewalks and walk to store

- decide not to smoke Simple choice. :> Of course, snow was still there a day later, etc.

I was stunned when I first started going to see current MD. Health questionnaire inquired re: smoking (no!) and history (um, yes). But, also how *much* (daily) on average in that period.

When I asked the reason for that level of detail (my MD actually enjoys my visits as I "challenge" hiim with lots of detailed questions... you don't want to have an appt after me as we always "run long" :> ), he replied that anything over ~20 pack-years (1 pack/day for 20 years;

2 packs for 10 years, etc) causes irreparable (poor choice of word) damage. It was startling to see that someone had been able to quantify a level of use that made a "significant" difference in health outcomes!

Drinking a beer, etc. Certain things just seemed to go together in a very natural way! :>

Around smokers, the smell will sometimes trigger a memory -- but not really a *craving*.

[drugs]

I guess I'd just never seen "drug users" acting irresponsibly (neglecting the fact that breaking the law is irresponsible! :> ) E.g., if someone was stoned, they wouldn't risk driving lest they get into an accident AND get busted for being stoned! It was a recreational activity with potential legal downside -- so you "behaved".

I'd never experienced the "seedier" side. Or, understood that there were folks who couldn't say "no".

OTOH, "drunks" were fairly obvious.

[sign of my naivite: friend had a "one day at a time" poster in his apartment. Frustrated (I'd seen them many places -- bumper stickers, etc. -- I asked him, "I see this on bumper stickers, posters, etc. What the hell does it mean." His reply, "It means I'm a drunk. When you see it on a car, the driver is probably a drunk." His blunt honesty was scarey! I guess this is part of the way he handles his alcoholism?]

At some point, I saw a study that claimed material learned under the influence of a "substance" (alcohol, etc) is best recalled under the influence of that same substance. The key thing that it failed to address was whether it would be better to learn *under* a substance or not! :<

As I said, I get into "habits" easily. Usually, to save myself some decision making process that really isn't worth the time it takes to decide! "Should I wear these pants, or those? Should I wear these shoes, or those? Should I have steak, or pasta? Should I have milk, or soda?" I.e., the answers to each of the above are unimportant. As long as I'm wearing pants, I won't get arrested for indecent exposure! As long as I've got shoes on, the soles of my feet won't be at risk if I step on a stone/pointed stick/etc. Steak and pasta will each provide me with calories. etc.

But, by removing these inconsequential decisions from my life, I can also put myself at risk. I.e., eating steak EVERY DAY is not healthy. (Haven't seen a downside to wearing black socks daily, though! :>)

Beverages have always been a noticeable choice -- its not uncommon to be drinking *something* throughout the day! Roughly a gallon or two of "whatever". I spent a summer drinking nothing but beer all day. Literally 24 bottles went in the trash each night. About 2G.

Normally, I would drink soda (pop?) continuously. 24 cans a day. "Ah, all that sugar is bad for you!" OK, switch to sugarfree soda. "Ah, soda is bad for you!" Switch to orange juice! What could be healthier?! (despite the fact that I am not fond of "orange" anything!)

This "habit" lasted exactly two days. Drink a gallon of OJ daily and you'll soon discover why it's a short-lived practice!! :> I'll leave the details to your imagination... :<

Ah, *tea* should be OK! Until dental hygenist complains about the staining. "Are you a smoker?" "No." "What are the stains on the inner surfaces of your teeth from? Coffee?" "No, tea". "Gee, how much tea do you drink?" "Well, my tea cup holds 16 oz and I fill it 8 or 9 times a day... yeah, that's about right. 100 tea bags last less than two weeks." "Can't you brush more often?" "What,

*8* times a day??"

I suspect I will eventually have to transition to water. Ick.

Common thread here is you seem to enjoy "quiet time". Or, "low energy" mode where you're not being "pushed" by

I think "escape" has too many negative connotations. I'd prefer "indulgence". Not all the things we do have to be *good* for us (why do I drink tea instead of water? water would probably be "better" for me). OTOH, there are an awful lot that can be destructive.

In my case, my "work" is my biggest joy. Vocation and avocation. Exciting to come up with a clever solution. Or, to finally be able to wrap my head around a particular problem. Not just "get it done" but get it done in a way that *feels* "well done".

That's a low frequency occurrence (projects take a long time) so the reward ("buzz") can be pretty intense.

On a shorter time scale, I seem to find reward in *variety*. I.e., those times when I *break* a habit.

E.g., every time I make a bowl of pasta (SWMBO is not fond of Italian food), it's like I've rediscovered a favorite food! Or, make some iced cream (too difficult to get into that habit -- too time consuming). Or, have a beer (have to buy it special as its never in the house).

And, in each case, I invariably ask myself, "Wow! I really enjoyed that! Why don't I do it more often/every day?!" Yet, know that "it" would quickly lose its specialness in that case.

Guy across the hall in my dorm had put a plank across the *inside* of the doorway into one of his closets. Then, filled the space with soil. Mushrooms. Then, later, hung grow lights for MJ. Seemed like a lot of work! :>

Yes, scarey. We don't watch much TV. So, when we do, the ads are actually far more noticeable -- we haven't the "experience" at tuning them out.

The drug/med ads are particularly amusing. The side effects are so outrageous (though no idea as to frequency). It makes you wonder why people *take* them!

E.g., one product geared towards relief of seasonal allergies (i.e., itchy eyes, sniffles, sneezing, congestion, etc.) listed THE SAME SYMPTOMS as potential side effects! WTF??

The most depressing aspect is how "cheap" (frugal?) people will be when it comes to their own health care (exercise and diet are "too expensive" to fix) yet adamant about having the most expensive

*remedies* for their afflictions! And, upset if they actually have to *pay* for them!

Friend significantly overweight. Poor eating habits (out to dinner EVERY day; often lunch as well. Never a "salad" but, rather, good "wholesome" -- high fat -- food. Red meat, etc.). No exercise. Overstuffed chair directly in front of oversized TV.

Surprise! Type 2 diabetes. No change to diet. Or exercise. "Just give me a pill".

Next surprise: heart attack. And *pissed* at his MD for his "I told you so" attitude. And, he *strict* diet imposed. "Nothing tastes good!" Well, yeah... if you're used to restaurant food that is designed to appeal to those dietary aspects that taste good (and get you coming back for unlimited seconds!) but have downside health risks (as evidenced by your recent experiences), you probably are NOT going to like anything you *should* be eating! OTOH, had you behaved a bit more responsibly, originally, this might not have happened and the dietary change wouldn't have seen as severe! I.e., you're upset because you got by "on the cheap" (behaviorally) before and now are having to "pay extra" to continue your life.

I think that's the "risk". Once things get emotional, both parties can become irrational. Fine if you're arguing over whose sport team is better -- no real consequences there. A bit higher stakes when real lives/futures are involved! <

I'm a pessimist/cynic. I'd see it more as "hopefully, her friends won't lead her astray!"

No, none of my own. Made a very conscious, well-thought-out decision many years ago that I wouldn't be as good a father as I (idealize) thought I *should* be if I was ging to have kids. Wife also didn't want "a family" so this was a great fit!

When she later did an about-face and set down a timetable to get to "a family", we ended up going separate ways. So, she could potentially

*get* what she wanted without me having to accept something "imposed".

SWMBO has no kids and we're now too old to even consider that sort of thing! :>

OTOH, I have countless "honorary" nieces and nephews. "Unca Don". It's real easy to deal with kids when they aren't your own! :> I have to be particularly responsible -- can't expose them to anything remotely harmful (physically or otherwise) especially because they

*aren't* my kids! (sort of like taking better care of a tool you borrow from a friend than you would if the tool were your own). But, I can be more generous with my time and attention because it's not a 24/7 responsibility for me!

So, I'll sit on the floor with a 2 year old and stack blocks. Or, "mock" chase a 5 year old around the yard. Or get into squirt gun fights IN THE HOUSE (i.e., *I* get the reprimand yet the kids get to "indulge" in a behavio that would otherwise be verbotten).

And, "No" from me might be met with a frown but tends to be accepted. Far more readily than from "Mom & Dad". (perhaps because they realize I have no obligation to come back and "play" if they annoy me?)

At times, parents almost seem jealous. I remind them that this is not my *job* so I can have a different attitude toward it and their kids and the kids, likewise, to me. They, OTOH, have to be mommy & daddy

24/7!

No idea. As a "disinterested third party" I'm just recounting what I've *observed* in others. Definitely a difference in how daughters and sons are treated. And a difference in how critical you are of your own vs. others.

IMO, much less stressful "seen from the outside"! :>

[Not wanting to put scarey ideas in your head, but... I don't know how I would handle finding out my XX year-old daughter was pregnant: "Who's the father? How could this happen? Didn't we tell you..." Of course, from the outside, all of that looks stupid, harmful and ineffective. But, what *would* I say in that situation? Would I *think* before reacting? How quickly would I recover my sanity? How much harm might I have done before that? As I said, I didn't have enough confidence to think I would be able to handle all those "parental challenges" as well as I *thought* they should be. And, that's why I don't get father's day cards! :> ]

That's the "stress" aspect. *YOU* won't be able to do anything to prevent that! You may be able to help in the "recovery". But, given the choice between watching a car wreck and being there to patch up the injured vs. *preventing* the wreck in the first place, I think we'd all see the desirability of he latter over the former. Too much stress in the former as you *watch* the wreck!

Prophetic.

Time for tea... :>

Agreed. It's business. I don't have an issue with gambling (or business). I'd rather not have it permeate the area around me, though.

There's nothing immoral about alcohol, either, but I don't want a tavern across the street from my house.

I lived near a large track in Ill. To me, the greatest thing about it was being able to buy $2 bills, in bulk, from the nearby bank! (far more useful than singles, nowadays!) All nice and "crisp" :>

From :

"Over 80% of Australian adults engage in gambling of some kind which is the highest rate of gambling in the world"

And the reference from which it derives:

"One more recent study, published in October last year [~2006?], suggested that Australians spend more money on gambling ($A17.52 each week) than they do on alcohol ($A10.99) and petrol ($A15.27), and almost as much as they do on clothes ($A18.67).

It is now estimated that more than 2% of the population have a significant gambling problem."

surprisingly worse than I had thought! ~100,000 poker machines in NSW alone??? 12% of gummit revenues from gaming??

Grin, I did watch da Bills, trounce the Jets on Sunday. I give my wife a big kiss every time we score. It's my attempt at Pavlovia n training, to get her to like football. (Hasn't really worked, but who ca res?)

Ya people and especially kids are robust. "take a licking and keep on tick ing"

I remember going to bed, dreaming about the cig I'd have with my morning co ffee. That was (almost) always the best one of the day! Very sad in some ways... though I still do look forward to my morning coffe e. (two cups and that's it, if I had to choose between coffee and beer...? )

Hmm I probably don't drink enough fluids. 2 coffee in the morning, water a t work, maybe a pop at lunch, a beer on friday sometimes. A few more at ho me and then milk before bed... maybe another glass if I get up in the night (2%).

Hmm.. maybe I'm giving the wrong impression? The fishing trip's once a yea r. I do like quiet time, but weekends are also full of physical activity. I'v e recently finished my 'gathering of wood' for the year (speaking of "tramp s in mudtime" ... some line about joining vocation with avocation... (ment ioned by Don down thread for those reading along at home.)

For me it's an escape. (paraphrasing from RAH "Citzen of the Galaxy" "Pop, wouldn't mine words, we were spying".)

~1-2 years ago we were going to marriage counseling once a week during lunc h. I always felt bad, because after the session I'd turn my work brain back on , and my wife didn't have that.)

I've always been one to enjoy the shorter time scale 'successes'. Finishing my dissertation was only a release. Making some little part in the machine shop and using it the next day was a joy!

My boss is giving a Spad (single photon avalanche diode) talk this week. W e were talking about the physics last week. I never understood exactly how the thing turned off (passively quenched). I'm scribbling pictures on the white board.... "the current/voltage drops off like this" ... "but why doe sn't the current just keep flowing when it hit's the avalanche I-V curve?" (the spad's biased above the avalanche breakdown voltage and at some point it's a reverse biased diode with a resistor in series, ~100k ohm with ~1 v olt across it ~10uA of current.) I then do the I-V curve... well, below ~5

0uA the current's erratic... it turns on and off randomly... Bingo!

We were living off campus, every once in a while a friend would 'blow throu gh' and stay on the couch for a day to several months. He picked down in L ouisiana.

Grin, well both then.... friends take you there and then bring you back!

I wanted kids for much more selfish reasons. I wanted to be a kid again! (Have someone to play cards with me.)

Well, I'd *much* rather have her pregnant than to have aids! Pregnant you get over. (Like, I have a choice.)

Yeah, Well I've been 'picking' at an old love wound lately, I'm a bit raw from the experience. As I mentioned up stream my/our marriage has been 'on the rocks'. A few weeks ago I looked up a 'long lost love' on the web (30

• years). I found her, sent her an email, a response, some more, and then I sent the "I've never gotten over you, could I see you" letter... **crazy love**. The next morning I'm going down the drive way, and I have to stop because I'm bawling. Tears are streaming from my eyes. What will I do if s he responds? I can't leave my family! I'd be breaking oh so many hearts.. . I can't do it.. what am I doing? I turn it off and go to work. That nig ht I see my wife, what the hell was I thinking? Here's the women I fell in love with? I confess the whole thing and send her the emails. I take a h alf day at work, the rest day and we talk. Long story short things are now ohh soo much better. I needed a crisis (even my own made up crisis) to kn ock me out of the rut I was in. Which brings this thread full circle. I'm spending more time with my family... driving my daughter to dance.

Wow Don, this has been great. I hope SED will forgive the 'Dear Abby' bit at the end. It's been nice to, prepare a bit, and think about what might happen... (something I don't always do.. :^)

George H.

Hi George,

[much elided to bring this to a close..]

I've always been big on fluids. Summers, here, probably double my intake just to stay hydrated. E.g., doing anything outdoors (strenuous) recommendation is a pint every 20 minutes. That's almost 1/2G per hour!

In early "Summer", very dry. So, you can exert yourself and never "perspire" (noticeably). You end up missing the "I'm Hot" cue and can end up severely dehydrated in no time!

Drink a quart of water AND NOT PEE! Scarey!!

Sorry, didn't mean to suggest you were a couch potato. Rather, that the activities you mentioned were more contemplative/quiet. Low key.

I like yardwork -- as long as it isn't YARDWORK (i.e., mowing lawn, raking leaves, pulling weeds... boring jobs that are never "done".) Exposing a 250 water line I buried many years back to lay a new "control cable" (solenoid valves and sensors) alongside it.

[Discovered location of *buried* sewer cleanout in the process!]

As I tell SWMBO, getting things *done* is my focus. Not "getting help", etc. As most of my projects (work + home) tend to be significant (new roof probably next year -- running out of "back" to wait much longer! :> ), the little things (making iced cream) are extra special in their brevity!

When I was in ~last year of high school, several of us were goofing off in Physics class. I said/did something (can't recall) and a friend laughed and said, good humoredly, "Gee, what are YOU gonna be WHEN YOU GROW UP?"

It was the first time I could remember being asked when I was actually capable of giving a deliberate answer! I just paused in the middle of our frivolity, thought for a few seconds and replied, "A kid again!"

Friend who made the wise crack was stunned at how solemn I had suddenly become. "Spooky".

I think I have managed to stick to that goal. Die while I'm ahead?? :>

I think true of many/most at some point. Question is whether BOTH parties ever realize it and what they do about it. E.g., in my case our goals had diverged: "irreconcilable differences" but no hostility, etc. Just a disappointment.

At least you realized it and reacted to preserve what you have.

I think marriage should be a limited contract (Cherry 2000 style negotiating? :> ). With an "end in sight", I think many more marriages would be less painful. You're not "stuck". You don't get into destructive behaviors because you can see an "out" ahead. And. maybe work harder to convince the other party not to "bail" on you when the contract is up for renewal, etc.

[this, of course, is folly -- esp with kids involved]

SWMBO & I aren't married. Yet have been together 20+ years. We

*choose* to stay together. To tolerate each other's "shit" instead of doing something in spite, etc. Makes for some legal complications and financial consequences but nothing insurmountable.

Of course, may not wok for others!

AND BUYING ANOTHER BEER! :>

Tolerates all the profanity, political ranting, etc. If folks don't like something, they don't have to *read* it! :>

Good luck with it -- ALL of it!

(Time for MORE tea! :> And I *really* want some iced cream!!!)

is moral or immoral.

Likewise, i hope that it does not offend you that i do not completely buy that.

Of course, in my own mind i think i can see enough to judge such things.

?-)

Sorry, i can't let this one pass. There are permanent physiological changes, let alone the emotional changes whether the pregnancy continues to term or not. And pregnancy to term creates a mother permanently. It remains true whether or not she raises the child.

Just the same i understand the idea of not getting over some of the STDs. Moreover i find the very idea of being permanently infectious (kind of like Typhoid Mary of old, see also lepers) rather repellent.

?-)