OT: Climate Change Bullshit

Interesting concept, the idea of cheating on tests being OK, and blame the officials for not catching the cheating.

So people should cheat on university exams and UL/CE certs and medical device safety tests and everything else, because it's cheaper than doing the work.

That creates a whole new industry, test cheat consultants. Being engineering consultants, they would heve to be certified PE's, which would involve taking tests. No problem.

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John Larkin         Highland Technology, Inc 
picosecond timing   precision measurement  

jlarkin att highlandtechnology dott com 
http://www.highlandtechnology.com

I assume that NOx and other emission limits exist to protect public health. And since the air is a shared resource, all car companies are required to not pollute the air. It's total chemical and particulate levels that kill people; of course no individual death can be blamed on any single car.

google it:

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John Larkin         Highland Technology, Inc 
picosecond timing   precision measurement  

jlarkin att highlandtechnology dott com 
http://www.highlandtechnology.com

Its a very old industry.

-- There is nothing a fleet of dispatchable nuclear power plants cannot do that cannot be done worse and more expensively and with higher carbon emissions and more adverse environmental impact by adding intermittent renewable energy.

You have to accept that whenever there are benchmarks with a ranking order there is pressure for gaming them. Hell I can't think of any compilers that don't recognise certain benchmark constructs and optimise the hell out of them even if they almost never occur in the real world.

Any benefit in real world code is entirely coincidental but being up there in the top five on the benchmarks is essential for sales.

If you face a specification that is more or less impossible then detecting the artificial test conditions and making the engine do what is expected seems fair game. If the test was realistic of actual driving conditions then the engine management unit would not be able to cheat.

Schools in the UK are into that sort of thing. Excluding the thicker and disruptive students to move up the rankings. Some have even been caught telling their students the right answers in advance of the exams:

Easy when you have teachers employed at top schools who also set the public examinations and who lack any kind of ethical standards.

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Regards, 
Martin Brown

All 'democracies' are fundamentally undemocratic, depending on how you look at them.

--
*Sometimes I wake up grumpy; Other times I let him sleep. 

    Dave Plowman        dave@davenoise.co.uk           London SW 
                  To e-mail, change noise into sound.

The NOx specs weren't impossible to meet; VW cheated to save money and improve performance.

It didn't work. How could they be so stupid to assume that they'd never get caught? Maybe they knew that they wouldn't get caught in europe. [1]

Then it's a good thing that we have prisons.

[1] when my wife lived in Germany, she drove some old beater that wouldn't pass the safety inspections. A friend told her how to pass: leave a bottle of Jim Beam on the back seat.

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John Larkin         Highland Technology, Inc 
picosecond timing   precision measurement  

jlarkin att highlandtechnology dott com 
http://www.highlandtechnology.com

onsdag den 5. december 2018 kl. 22.30.40 UTC+1 skrev John Larkin:

or they knew everyone is doing it so they assumed is was sorta silently agreed that politicians get to pretend they save the world with stricter regulations, and the auto industry gets to sell cars by pretending to meet those regulations

the problem is diesel engines, they need so many crutches to get emissions down to that of of gasoline engines

every has tales like that, but who risks massive fines and their license to do inspections for a $15 bottle of booze?

Woss this? Another one whose approach is that if it isn't black, it must be white? That's a piss-poor way of arguing, and we have our own shitheads polluting uk.d-i-y who take this sort of line, we don't need furriners from another ng adopting the same approach, thank you very much.

And I don't recall saying that cheating is OK. If the gumment specifies the test outcome, it should be also thinking about how the system can be gamed, otherwise it's not doing the job we pay them to do. Orrrite?

--
The truth of the matter is that we Scots have always been more divided amongst 
ourselves than pitted against the English. Scottish history before the Union of 
Parliaments is a gloomy, violent tale of murders, feuds, and tribal revenge. 
Only after the Act of Union did Highlanders and Lowlanders, Picts and Celts, 
begin to recognise one another as fellow citizens. 

Tam Dalyell

When I worked at SLAC 30 years ago, there was a guy there with a VW Scirocco. Every two years, in preparation for the California emissions test, he'd remove the straight pipe he'd installed and put back the catalytic converter he'd replaced with the pipe. After passing the test, he'd take the cat off and put the pipe back.

--
Anyone who slaps a 'this page is best viewed with Browser X' label on a Web 
page appears to be yearning for the bad old days, before the Web, when you had 
very little chance of reading a document written on another computer, another 
word processor, or another network. 

-- Tim Berners-Lee

Neatly put.

It's not, of course, and you won't get such an argument since none can be made. Which is just what happens when I ask for the name of the party which is the Official Opposition in the EU Parliament, or for the names of the members of the Shadow Commission who we can elect in to replace the current lot. When I ask these things all I get is a deafening silence.

--
I was brought up to believe that you should never give offence if you can avoid 
it; the new culture tells us you should always take offence if you can. There 
are now experts in the art of taking offence, indeed whole academic subjects, 
such as 'gender studies', devoted to it. 

Roger Scruton

Especially those that have the word "Democratic" in the country name. Such as the former GDR.

--
"That which can be asserted without evidence, can be dismissed without  
evidence." 
-- Christopher Hitchens

AB

It's not illegal? People don't go to prison for such thing? They do in the US.

dennis@home wrote

Yeah, I keep getting that backwards. Clearly its actually insurance in case the worst outcome of a no deal brexit actually happens.

Still just insurance, not him being a hypocrite or immoral in any way.

He hasn?t moved his entire operation anywhere.

Its actually insurance, not certainty of the outcome.

Since you have now reversed your position - without acknowledging that - and continue to make contradictory claims elsewhere, it looks like I do agree with The Natural Philosopher: you are an Australian troll.

Like hell I have.

Just another remoaner lie.

Just another remoaner lie.

Indeed. Very good points.

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I was brought up that when presenting technical truths, whether or not it causes offence is simply irrelevant. To wit:

"Dissing General Relativity is as Anti-Semitic as dissing Islam, is Islamophobic"

*where for the sake of this debate, the meaningless word "Islamophobic" is taken to mean "hates Muslims"

It is impossible to say anything, that isn't offense to at least someone. Therefore mere offence should never be a foil for any decisions whatsoever, otherwise ALL speech must be banned, as even "have a nice day" might really piss someone off.

-- Kevin Aylward

- SuperSpice

By "fundamentally " I mean in some way, for example, that the people can vote out the people actually making the laws. No one is naively claiming that everyone gets to have a voice in everything. That just gets to the mob rule, where the foxes are voting on who they get to eat for lunch.

So, no, I don't agree that all "democracies" are "fundamentally" undemocratic. That would ignore the clear and very real practicable difference between was was soviet communism and western democracies.

The EU has stepped to far away, and its getting worse, in my view

-- Kevin Aylward

- SuperSpice