OrCAD Offer

Do you have a question? Post it now! No Registration Necessary

Translate This Thread From English to

Threaded View
Capture & PCB Editor perpetual licence  - $530

https://www.ema-eda.com/offers/Purchase-OrCAD-Today

Re: OrCAD Offer
On 06/08/2020 19:33, JM wrote:
Quoted text here. Click to load it

Offer applies to Europe as well...

Re: OrCAD Offer
On Thursday, August 6, 2020 at 4:03:49 PM UTC-4, JM wrote:
Quoted text here. Click to load it

What does Orcad have to offer that is not available in KiCAD?  

--  

  Rick C.

  - Get 1,000 miles of free Supercharging
We've slightly trimmed the long signature. Click to see the full one.
Re: OrCAD Offer
On Thursday, August 6, 2020 at 1:59:58 PM UTC-7, Ricketty C wrote:
Quoted text here. Click to load it
Orcad does have an autorouter and signal integrity tool. But you can't beat the price of Kicad (FREE!), especially since Eagle freeware is history.

Re: OrCAD Offer
On 8/6/2020 1:59 PM, Ricketty C wrote:
Quoted text here. Click to load it

As with any FOSS EDA package, the question to ask is "where was
<FOSS package> 10 years ago?  20?  30??  40???   And, what
capabilities did it have way-back-then?"

If you're a hobbyist and don't have to worry about interfacing with
others in your "organization", or supporting designs (which includes
symbol and pad libraries) that may have been created 5-10 years
ago -- then you have the freedom to choose damn near any tool that
your heart desires AND LIVE WITH ITS SHORTCOMINGS going forward.

OTOH, if you have a cache of existing designs (and corporate
standards) with which your NEW design has to seemlessly integrate,
then you may find yourself rebuilding symbol libraries in <new tool>
instead of just adding one or two new symbols to the OLD library
for this new design.

I found OrCAD (Capture & Layout) to be tolerable tools.  Like most
EDA tools, they have their quirks.  But, do a couple of designs in
them and you learn what to avoid, which tricks to leverage, etc.
At the time, hot-probing schematic/PCB and seeing the corresponding
traces/signals in PCB/schematic was a delight.  It's what originally
led me to using multiple monitors for my desktop (as a "full screen"
window for Capture AND Layout make much more sense than silly little
stacked windows into each!)  But, I imagine this is old-hat for more
recent users.

[But, then again, I found DASH-STRIDES and DASH-PCB to be tolerable;
esp given the dearth of other affordable tools available on the PC
platform back then!  Especially hierarchical design!]


Re: OrCAD Offer
On Thursday, August 6, 2020 at 7:16:26 PM UTC-4, Don Y wrote:
Quoted text here. Click to load it

That was a long post to say so little.  

You start out talking about some sort of history lesson without actually sa
ying anything.  

Then you seem to be dissing the KiCAD capabilities without actually mention
ing any.  

So you don't like converting between systems.  Who does?  But this is not a
bout maintaining the status quo really, its about the offer from Orcad vs.  
KiCAD, so let's stick to the issues of the tools.  I hope you realize the w
orld doesn't use Orcad exclusively.  Not everyone would have to convert fro
m Orcad.  

Then you finish up with a mention of a feature found in Orcad without even  
mentioning if it exists in KiCAD.  

Wow!  You would be one terrible salesman.  I'd be washing my hand after you
 shook it, if I shook yours at all.  

--  

  Rick C.

  + Get 1,000 miles of free Supercharging
We've slightly trimmed the long signature. Click to see the full one.
Re: OrCAD Offer
On 8/6/2020 5:07 PM, Ricketty C wrote:
Quoted text here. Click to load it

I said I enjoyed using OrCAD -- at the time THAT I WAS FORCED TO USE IT.
Just as I enjoyed using DASH-PCB -- when there were no other real alternatives
(I didn't want to buy a ComputerVision workstation!)

The implication of my past experience with COTS tools is that I am loath
to drop them -- and my experiences/support libraries with them -- in
favor of a zero-dollar tool that wasn't around when I needed it.  What's
the upside -- for me -- to learn another set of bugs/features?  Is KiCAD
going to enable me to design some board that I previously couldn't?  No.

I learned early on to avoid clients who skimped on tools as *I* didn't
want to waste my time trying to work around THEIR economies.

Quoted text here. Click to load it

I said nothing at all regarding KiCAD's capabilities.  People with $0 EDA
budgets probably love it -- their time isn't worth anything (to themselves)
in the calculus.  Likewise, people designing little 2-4 layer boards.

OTOH, designing a *dense*, multilayer board may leave them wishing for
a more capable tool.  Unless, of course, they don't care how many hours
they put into getting a finished product.

I have 22 designs going into fab over the next few months.  Before I
started the first of these, I reevaluated the various tools that I have
on hand to determine where I'd likely have the fewest "issues".
Because, while the tools are all paid for (thus "free") as is the training,
the potential hassles that I'm likely to encounter with the designs and
layouts represent hours of my life (and design risks) that I'd not like
to casually waste.  I'm not billing on a T&M job where "you" can pay for
those inefficiencies.

Quoted text here. Click to load it

If you're a HOBBYIST, then it's just a matter of whether or not you
"like converting between systems".  If you're an employee, contractor or
businessman, then it's more than an issue of what you "like" and "don't
like".  There are REAL dollars and market opportunities at stake.

   But this is not
Quoted text here. Click to load it

So, are we going to repeat this exercise for Mentor?  Altium?  Eagle?
DIPTrace?  etc.  Why don't you find a forum that spends its time discussing
those comparison OPINIONS.  I suspect you'll come away with no clear
indication of which is "better" -- esp for YOUR particular needs.

And not everyone would entertain a tool that has no "paid support".
What do you do when you need to get artwork out and there's no vendor
with real skin in the game?

Quoted text here. Click to load it

Why don't you just spend a few weeks using each and come to an answer for
yourself?  That's how I evaluated each EDA, CAD, etc. tool that I purchased.
Playing with some contrived "demo" never shows you the issues (costs)
that YOU are likely to face.

Ages ago, I had a client who used Wintek (ick, ick, ick!).  Do *I* want to
modify your existing design using that tool?  No thanks -- maybe someone
else might, though!

Clearly if ANYONE offers their own PERSONAL take on THEIR experience with a
tool, you'll find some reason to dismiss it as being irrelevant to YOUR
particular needs.  So, why bother?

There are lots of demo designs out there.  Try to route each of them
using a variety of tools.  Try building a new padstack.  Try building
a new symbol.  Try resolving a "bug" under a deadline schedule.  Port
one of YOUR designs to a toolset and see how easily it migrates and
how effectively you can use that tool for your REAL problem.

Then, come up with your own appraisal of the tools.

We won't care.

Re: OrCAD Offer
On Thursday, August 6, 2020 at 8:47:10 PM UTC-4, Don Y wrote:
Quoted text here. Click to load it
it
hers
nd
ave
IVE
)
Quoted text here. Click to load it
ind
ing
d
in
e
sp
m
y
tives

Ok, but your issues of what you are familiar with is not very relevant to a
nyone else.  I was trying to discuss the tool, not your level of comfort.  
No one is trying to proselytize you.  


Quoted text here. Click to load it

Exactly!  

You did talk about the tool having shortcomings.  I guess you were talking  
in the generic.  


Quoted text here. Click to load it
s)
Quoted text here. Click to load it

You know nothing about KiCAD but you are happy to diss it?  Here you clearl
y seem to be dissing the tool.  Or maybe you just think nothing compares to
 Orcad???  

Are you actually saying anything at all?  


Quoted text here. Click to load it
g,

Ok, I feel for you.  


Quoted text here. Click to load it

I'm a business person.  I make millions from the designs I produce.  That d
oesn't mean I'm not willing to look at new tools.  


Quoted text here. Click to load it
 vs.
Quoted text here. Click to load it
he
t
ng

What exercise are you talking about really?  You seem to be making a huge m
ountain out of a rather tiny molehill.  I asked what Orcad can do that that
 KiCAD doesn't and you seem to have turned this into a major assault on you
r design process.  Sorry I asked.  


Quoted text here. Click to load it

Resolve the issue?  

I was taking a course on high speed design and the instructor was talking a
bout a chip vendor who was hugely over recommending capacitors to be used w
ith their product.  He decided he could create an effective design with man
y less caps by doing a proper analysis of the PDS.  The chip vendor's repre
sentative said, "We can't guarantee your design will work if you don't foll
ow the recommendation."  The instructor had asked if he did follow the reco
mmendation did they guarantee his board would work?  

What CAE vendor guarantees your tools will work when you need them to?  


Quoted text here. Click to load it
ven
 you
Quoted text here. Click to load it
ed.
o
 a
Quoted text here. Click to load it

Thanks for... well, nothing really.  So why exactly did you post all this?  
 If you know nothing about KiCAD, why did you post at all?  

Oh, is it because you think nothing can compare to Orcad?  Why didn't you j
ust say that you recommend Orcad?  That would have been so much easier for  
both of us.  

--  

  Rick C.

  -- Get 1,000 miles of free Supercharging
We've slightly trimmed the long signature. Click to see the full one.
Re: OrCAD Offer
On 8/6/2020 6:47 PM, Ricketty C wrote:
Quoted text here. Click to load it

It's relavent to ANYONE who has an IP invested in a particular tool.
That's the whole point of my post!

"What does Orcad have to offer that is not available in KiCAD?"

Ans:  100% compatibility with OTHER DESIGNS that you may have
in place using OrCAD.

IME, that's the biggest cost to using a tool.  Do you want to
retweek your EXISTING schematic/parts library -- which already
WORKS for your <favorite> tool -- just to take advantage of
a "free" tool?

Quoted text here. Click to load it

I said *nothing* that should have led you to think OrCAD is the
epitome of EDA tools.

Quoted text here. Click to load it

Yes.  See above.

In case you missed it, "see above".

If you have no IP, then it clearly doesn't pertain to you.
If you've got a big roll of rubilyth in the back room and
an endless supply of xacto blades, then the featuresets of
all of these tools are unimportant to you.

Quoted text here. Click to load it

I have a life outside of designing kit.  I want to spend the least
amount of time relearning yet another tool to do what a tool I
already have on hand does "adequately".

I don't continuously "update" existing tools just because a vendor offers
an upgrade -- free or not.  Upgrading costs time and introduces risk
(what NEW bugs have been introduced?  what old use patterns no longer
work as expected?)

Quoted text here. Click to load it

The exercise of comparing OrCAD to "free" KiCAD.  Why limit your search to
an analysis of just those two tools (since you are so willing to explore new
tools!)?

If JM posts an offer for DIPTrace, will you ask "What does DIPTrace offer that
KiCAD doesn't?"

Quoted text here. Click to load it

They are (financially) motivated to ensure I am happy with their tool.

I purchased the Advanced Modeling Extension for AutoCAD 11 (?) many
years ago.  Two days later, I had uncovered a reproducible bug.  My
"rep" doubted this:  "It's AUTOCAD!" (good rep).  A few days later,
I had an apology and a new copy of AutoCAD and AME that fixed the bug
(actually, an entire new retail package).

Assuming there was a 3D CAD FOSS product available at the time, do
I think anyone would have made my bug a priority?

Quoted text here. Click to load it

Again, "see above".

If you are running KiCAD, then you'll discover there is a hidden (large)
cost to switching to OrCAD.  Or DIPTrace.  Or Eagle.  Or...

So, if you're running KiCAD -- and it is sufficient to meet your design
needs -- then don't bother looking at OrCAD (unless you have lots of time
to waste on moving to a new tool -- why not spend even MORE money and
time and move to, for example, Altium?).

Quoted text here. Click to load it

*You* think I recommend OrCAD.  Please find where *I* recommended it?

[I've used probably a dozen EDA tools over the years and have very strong
opinions on each of their merits -- esp in the timeframes when they were
adopted.  Hint:  I'm *not* using OrCAD in my current batch of designs!
And I'm definitely not using KiCAD.  It definitely doesn't offer me
anything that I don't already have MORE of!]

As I said, TRY each of them on a REAL design.  Not some artificial design
that THEY concocted.  You can look at a list of "features" and come away
with absolutely no understanding of how effectively any of those features
are implemented.  (e.g., DASH-PCB could do SMT in the early 80's.  OTOH,
if you actually tried to use it for an SMT design, you would discover lots
of warts that made it totally ineffective in that domain).

Good luck in your search!


Re: OrCAD Offer
On Thursday, August 6, 2020 at 10:28:42 PM UTC-4, Don Y wrote:
Quoted text here. Click to load it

You are a strange duck.  You literally can't see anything other than what is right in front of you.  Wow!  

I'm glad I don't have to work with you.  

--  

  Rick C.

  -+ Get 1,000 miles of free Supercharging
We've slightly trimmed the long signature. Click to see the full one.
Re: OrCAD Offer
On 8/6/2020 7:32 PM, Ricketty C wrote:
Quoted text here. Click to load it

Amusing that you come to such conclusions (just like concluding that I was
recommending OrCAD).   Delusional?

Have YOU looked at KiCAD?  How often and over what period of time?

Have you looked at OrCAD?  How often and over what period of time?

(Yet, I'm *sure* you've come to some conclusion/delusion as to the extent of
my activities in each of those situations)

Quoted text here. Click to load it

Yeah, *I* actually have to get things done -- instead of tinkering with
yet another tool that already does what "mine" does (to prove that I'm
"open" to using new tools).

Perhaps you don't have enough WORK to keep you busy??

Or, maybe you enjoy repeating old exercises -- instead of broadening
your horizons (I'm researching different approaches to providing high
availability RDBMS services and the consequences of each approach;
but, hey, maybe you already know how to do such things...)

Maybe you can find a tool written in FORTH -- "the language of tomorrow,
yesterday"!

Bye.

Site Timeline