Microwave brain scrambler?

Electrodes!, Ha! Now that would be grossly outdated and barbaric...

Steve

Let's agree to disagree.

I'm here to learn. I will pay careful attention to any double-blind peer reviewed scientific data or reasonably plausible applied science.

When you tell me those three things, I wonder why they appear to contradict the information that I've gathered. Please feel free to post a link to any data you find compelling.

Thanks! :)

--Winston

How did you get the current to flow? Surface contact?

--Winston

--
Today's retailer is in an awkward position.
He must assuage his visceral need to anger
some of his clients while having to delight
them sufficiently to guarantee repeat business.

Work Product, Company IP, cannot discuss due to NDA. Suffice it to say there are other natural pathways into the body.

Sierra Nevada did NOT get phase II of the SBIR for Frey Effect...

Maybe this will answer your questions as to why this does not work. This will be my last post on the subject... If the IEEE is not a better source for you then the sensationalist hype of "Wired" I don't know what is... Names are named, so you can go look up the papers.

Remember, this was discovered by a seaman standing watch on radar platforms at sea with massive cold war radars. High peak energy, and at slow, click , click, click pulse rates, ie short range search mode...

Also the transit time across the skull precludes modulation for "hearing voices", all you hear, and the physics matches this, is rebounding echos of the click off the wall of the skull obscuring any possible content. And if you can hear that, the power level is a eye hazard for all in the area and a rad hazard for you.. You end up cooking bystanders corneas for some distance away..

Also please note I use my UA address as a Google spam trap... I'm not there anymore, and neither is my account.

Steve

I respect your decision. At the risk of appearing to need the 'last word' I respond to let you know I appreciate your feedback and will consider it carefully.

OK. (Scratches head)

I guess I never mentioned that this has absolutely nothing to do with the sensation of sound experienced by someone in the path of modulated microwave radiation. I am reassured that the Frey Effect is apparently incredibly inefficient, nonetheless.

Thanks again.

--Winston

--
Today's retailer is in an awkward position.
He must assuage his visceral need to anger
some of his clients while having to delight
them sufficiently to guarantee repeat business.

You have 5 senses plus the pretty girl effect. And maybe more, And don't tell me a pretty young thing cannot tell when you are staring at her. There are other things, vestibular, stomach acting at acoustic resonance, or acceleration, touch divided into in pressure and temperature and large electric fields.. Normal and peripheral vision etc . .

Steve

I think we fell out of sync there, Steve. There must be a point but I'll be darned if it is obvious.

--Winston

--
Today's retailer is in an awkward position.
He must assuage his visceral need to anger
some of his clients while having to delight
them sufficiently to guarantee repeat business.

--
What would you have had them do, take your tack and reject them out of
hand with no investigation?

Hmm... it seems with that new valve you're even more of a pig than you
were before.

JF

The Navy had spent ~600K on the development at that point.

I know that isn't even chump change WRT the DoD but it does indicate that the Navy was convinced of the potential of the weapon.

--Winston

--
Today's retailer is in an awkward position.
He must assuage his visceral need to anger
some of his clients while having to delight
them sufficiently to guarantee repeat business.

Note: For those who don't like Google posts, I understand and PLEASE feel free to have never seen this. I use this only to evade some of the nut-jobs on the net.

First point. To address the argument "because someone has patented this or someone has paid a lot of money for this it must be worth something and maybe it works."

Bob Park, a respected individual in the physics community, has a weekly free e-newsletter, usually describing the stupidest ideas he has seen each week.

By coincidence, in the March 19, 2010 issue he again describes, with more detail than in previous issues, how Iraq, Mexico, and I believe some police departments in the U.S., have paid $20,000 a piece for GT

200 divining rods. If you are a police officer and you want in and you have no evidence, that is an inconvenience. But if your $20,000 divining rod said there is contraband inside then you have all the evidence you need to kick the door in. I suppose you could say that works for them. And with the Iraqis having paid $30,000,000, the Mexicans having paid an unknown amount, plus others, it certainly works for ATSC Ltd. and Global Technologies Ltd. who sell these. But in a century of debunking, divining rods have never been shown to do what they claim to do. Likewise the U.S. military spending chump change to see if psychic warriors could walk through walls or see inside of buildings from the opposite side of the world using nothing but the power of their minds. We can come up with thousands of other examples of fraud that work for the people making money off this but that will not stand up to testing. CoastToCoastAM.com and the radio show it represents has at least a couple of guests a night claiming the most amazing things and I don't believe there is ever a claim you could actually verify.

So I think you can reasonably argue that just because someone claimed something or even paid a fortune for it does not mean that it actually works. Testing is what determines if it works.

Next point. In "The predictioneer's game: using the logic of brazen self-interest to see and shape the future", by Bruce Bueno de Mesquita, he describes on pages 28-29 I think but my copy isn't here, how there is great incentive for everyone every day everywhere to bluff (lie). I think this seems especially common the net where people (nut-jobs?) will often claim all kinds of things that would never stand up to actual testing, but it costs them nothing and I think that people arguing with them only serves to make them even more certain of their groundless claims. Bueno de Mesquita on those pages describes that the answer to bluffing (lying) is "to make bluffing really costly." He claims that when the price goes up the bluffer will usually quietly disappear.

As evidence for that, two highly skilled individuals who I greatly respect, and who will remain nameless, have described to me how again and again they have offered in complete sincerity to do all the work to help people with "alternative ideas" actually test these ideas. My understanding was that the people consistently heard this as "confirm what I believe." But when it was politely explained to them that a really rigorous test might possibly end up refuting their ideas then in every single case the people gently inched away from this and never had their claims tested. You might consider one or more of your own ideas that you are absolutely certain of, but which is hotly contested. If you had to risk something significant for your claim then this gives some indication of how certain you really are.

So I propose to combine all this in the following way. I will borrow an arbitrary waveform generator and the manual for it. We will agree on a mutually convient location, probably where he is. Mr. Winston and I will program up the generator to produce exactly the single waveform he wants to use, no screwing around for days or months with "maybe it needs a different waveform or different power or different..." I will bring along an amplifier and scope and power meter to verify the waveform and power levels are the 2mW/gm or 2mW/ cm^2, peak power, not average power, no gigawatt pulses allowed, that he has repeatedly described. He will obtain his own power meter to also verify this, just so there is no chance that I have cheated by rigging the power levels. Note: Based on a few searches these power levels don't look too different from what I would get from a cell phone, if I had one of those, but the modulation and frequencies are different. With that and what everyone who has responded to this has said, it does not appear that there is any significant risk to my brain so I will be wildly generous and will be the test subject. Mr. Wilson and I will agree on exactly what the outcome must be for this to be confirmed, anything else will be agreed to refute the claims. We turn it on. Let's say ten minutes to see whether the outcome has been confirmed or refuted, that is dozens of times longer than any effective anti-theft device could reasonably take. I will bring $10,000 U.S. cash. Mr. Winston wil do the same. We put that on the table. After ten minutes the winner takes everything on the table. So Mr. Wilson gets free use of the equipment, no travel cost for this or me, has multiple research papers and the military having spent hundreds of thousands of dollars, all supporting his claim, and in ten minutes he wins $10,000 for verifying what he is already certain of. What could be better than that. All he needs to do is think of a way to convince me he is serious. (Side bets will be gleefully accepted for whether my brain immediately explodes or not)

(...)

Let me respond by saying that I merely asked a question. I concluded the thread by accepting that the thread participants all indicated that, in their best engineering judgment, the effect was not likely to materialize under the conditions outlined.

I indicated that I was satisfied there was ample evidence to support the theory and provided additional documentation but had indicated that we could 'agree to disagree' about the existence of the effect.

I agree to the test with the following qualifications:

Let's make it only "bragging rights" (because betting is illegal) and agree that the conditions of the test are to be identical to those shown in the patent:

That means you get to find a 20 db gain parabolic antenna and 1.3 KW microwave transmitter that can source 100% amplitude modulated RF at

1.3 kW from 900 MHz to 4 GHz so that the subject is irradiated with a field strength of no less than 10.5 mW / cm^2.

The test subject and family will sign a waver holding everyone and everything harmless in case of immediate or eventual repercussions including inconvenience, changed health, unconsciousness, impairment, death or any combination of the above occurring at any time.

A disinterested licensed doctor or medical technician will evaluate the test subject before and after the test and will decide if the test may proceed. That medical doctor will be the sole arbiter of the effect of the test, if any. All parties and newsgroup participants agree to accept the judgment of that doctor without argument.

The test will be double blind; designed and carried out by a disinterested engineer who's professional expertise encompasses the art and science necessary for a scientifically valid outcome.

The ten minute limit will apply to that interval of time that the test subject is exposed to no less than 10.5 mW / cm^2 RF power.

The test will be canceled without repercussion to any party if it becomes apparent that performance would be in violation of any local, state or federal law or is in conflict with the opinion of a disinterested licensed medical doctor who reviews the design of the test and examines the subject.

The subject is to be recorded (both video and audio) during the test. Copies of the recordings and all data will be given to all interested parties. The audio and video recordings will be posted on Youtube.com and links to those and to all test data will be provided in the sci.electronics.design newsgroup.

The subject is to be standing during the test and will be provided with 24" thick, soft cushions on the floor area in a 360 degree arc, designed so that the subject will not be harmed should he fall or convulse.

All publication rights will be ceded to me.

I will be present during the test, to the best of my ability but will not conduct it or participate in any way. I will not be held liable for anything or to anyone, including resources to conduct the test.

Agreed?

Thanks for your attention

--Winston

"...an organization that is incapable of any sort of immorality or crime, because they would never be accused, no matter who they attacked."

I don't quite follow.

--
-- Marten Kemp (Fix ISP to reply)
You can't help being ignorant 'cause there's always
something you don't know; what you can't be is stupid.

Please pardon my sarcasm. We define immorality and crime by who we punish. A loser knocking over a liquor store clearly did an immoral, criminal act. We arrest and prosecute him.

On the other hand, people in positions of power regularly and normally commit crimes that are 1000's of times more detrimental to society without any sort of meaningful punishment. Consider the bank bailouts that privatized profits at the expense of public debt. Consider an upper level corporate manager practicing medicine without a license in order to further his political goals.

Think: Bernie Madoff. It is simply impossible for society to punish him at the same ratio dollar-for-dollar than we punish that loser who knocks over the liquor store.

Think: Insurance companies who say "You have no claim" before one even has a chance to ask a question.

Think: Tobacco companies. They *had* to have known that their product caused cancer and emphysema decades before it became public knowledge. Yet tens of thousands of people died believing the lies of Big Tobacco.

There are too many more examples. The one thing that these powerful folks have in common is that they have to step very far outside the bounds of good behavior before we arrest and prosecute. Even then, most spend their lives committing crimes that would get you or me put away for the rest of our lives.

These are the folks who will be in control of the pulse microwave transmitter. They will use it to tailor the demographic in restaurants (No overweight folks, no older folks no people of the wrong race etc.) Some of us older folks will be convinced we suffered our first serious stroke and will plan accordingly. (Take that in the darkest possible way).

These people in positions of power will use it immorally because and leaves no evidence. We choose not to make this sort of assault illegal. Why is that?

It's one of those forest/tree things.

If a law enforcement official is aware of a crime and chooses not to investigate, did that crime really happen?

My point is, de facto, it didn't because the perpetrator is too well connected to be arrested.

Did that clarify my statement?

Thanks

--Winston

Bill? Where did you go?

I solved one of the engineering problems for you. Turns out marine radars can be hacked to provide the necessary bursts of high power microwaves:

eBay 300411472600 is a 3 KW 9.44 GHz unit for only $10. Here's the user manual:

I can pick it up for you in Garden Grove.

It comes with a slotted antenna so you don't even have to find a parabola, though it might need to be repaired.

Let me repeat that I regard this to be a dangerous weapon likely to cause serious injury. I urge you to not get involved with it in any way.

--Winston