Lithium battery fires

I may have posted this before, but here goes:

A couple of years ago (but long after 9/11) a friend of mine was going to drive across the state for a family reunion. Unfortunately, hs car broke down. In a panic, he called one of the airlines and booked a last minute flight to his destination which was due to leave in a short time. He jumped in a cab, raced to the airport and made in onto his flight at the last minute. After arriving (with no problems en route) he discovered that he had made it through airport security with one handgun in his jacket and at least one more, plus ammo in carry on luggage.

So, here's a guy running through SeaTac airport, probably sweating like a pig at this point, trying to catch a flight booked at the last minute. And nobody sees anything.

I recently flew from Phoenix to San Diego with a big-ass corkscrew/foil-knife in my carry-on.

Discovered it when I unpacked in Rancho Bernardo.

So I had the secretary at Zarlink ship it back, figuring two times thru security would be pushing my luck ;-)

...Jim Thompson

text -

Look at the people staffing customs and compare them to the TSA folks. The customs folks are all heavily armed, professional looking law enforcement folks. They have dogs running around, sniffing luggage and they poke around in anything that strikes them as remotely suspicious. Strange. For security purposes, it's too late to stop a hijacker or bomber once they get OFF the plane.

Meanwhile, the TSA folks (and the private security contractors that preceded them) are all minimum wage types.

In Europe, its the other way around. The people checking you prior to boarding are the pros. In some cases, customs and immigration is practically an honor system.

If the USA wanted better security, they could simply relocate the customs people to the boarding end. I get the feeling that this whole terrorism thing is just propaganda to justify tightening up an economic blockade of foreign goods and workers.

You have got to be kidding me. I had to do a double take as the customs "professional" was holding my ID and asking me what my business was in the US. I politely said, "I live there, as shown on my ID" and she looked kinda' miffed that I caught her asking such a dumb question AND she was one of the smarter ones I've dealt with over the years........

Naaaaaah! It's part of the American welfare system... TSA, postal workers, etc ;-)

...Jim Thompson

"Paul Hovnanian P.E." wrote in news: snipped-for-privacy@seanet.com:

Well after 9/11,in separate incidents,a couple of US Federal LEOs left their loaded handguns on their seats and deplaned,the guns being discovered by other passengers and thankfully,the attendants notified.There was never any mention of what disciplinary action the two miscreants received,if any at all.

What gets me, was that the older (>1year if i remember correctly) reference was slanted as if the lithium batteries were serious hazards and implication should be banned, period. That article stated that not even Halon would have an effect on a fire. It gave good pointers / ideas for anyone with intent to mayhem anywhere on (essentially) how to use lithium batteries as fire / explosion starters.

The newer article specifically stated that there was absolutely no problem, that any lithium battery fire could not only be controlled, but be put out with on-board resources.

So there are night and day differences - meaning someone is plainly lying.

I have the old lithum cells from a laptop battery. Please suggest what could be done to those cells to check if it can really cause a fire.

VLV

Good thing you aren't from New Mexico, here illegally!

Got a number?

What incentive is there for them to change regs? That takes work. Iven if they had nothing to do (hardly), what's the incentive to attack *that* problem?

That's why this isn't a private conversation. ;-)

A free replacement battery (for one that is likely almost dead) worth something around $175 is a pretty good incentive to go through the process. The manufacturers likely know how many came home. They might not like to release that information but I'm sure some sort of NDA could be worked out.

It wasn't just recharging that caused them to catch fire, though if the device is off they're pretty safe. Smaller batteries are obviously a smaller risk too. I did get a recall (of the new battery sent - pitch the old one, variety) for my XM radio at about the same time.

For this experiment you'll need:

A video recorder of some sort An axe, chisel or any other sharp cutting tool.

Turn the video recorder on and puncture a Li-Ion cell with the axe, chisel or what have you.

Post the video to YouTube and let us know how to find it.

Ah yes, do this OUTSIDE!

That is messy and it is not a proof of anything. How about overcharging or shorting?

When I was 10 y.o., I hacked a can of spay paint with an axe....The effect exceeded all expectations.

VLV

I do not think i would like to aid and abet a crime...

I don't know, in answer to both questions.

But fires associated with li batteries continue to occur, and continue to be reported. So dismissing a report from 2004 on the basis that it is "old" is invalid. Here are some references from 2006 & 2007 that Google found based on "lithium battery fires" in the search box:

Sony announced a recall in October, 2006.

A public hearing was held in July 2006 on a fire on UPS Airlines Flight 1307 that occurred on Feb 7 2006 that *might* have involved li batteries. In the hearing reference was made to a fire that

" Nevertheless, secondary lithium batteries as well as primary (or ?non-rechargeable? lithium batteries) can present fire hazards due to the heat often generated when they are damaged or suffer a short circuit. Several lithium battery incidents have occurred in recent years, including a lithium-ion battery fire that occurred less than two months ago on an airplane in Chicago. Flight attendants used extinguishers on an overhead bag that was smoking. The bag was removed from the airplane and placed on the ramp, where it then caught fire. The fire apparently started from a spare laptop battery being carried in the bag."

Time and Information Week carried articles in December that discussed the ban on li batteries in checked baggage on flights, effective Jan 1 2008.

In March, 2007, USA Today claimed that at least 9 fires involving li batteries had occurred in planes or cargo since 2005.

Yup. His silence is deafening. :-(

Ed

Not off the top of my head.

JosephKK

I hauled off and did some more checking, try:

Thanks. I did a search on the ones my server has but they only go back to 24.67, so no hits.