What is the proper way to label/mark moveable electrical fixtures for
12VDC use.We are using several unmodified 110VAC rated floor lamps with 12VDC ES27 LED bulbs and want to warn regarding not plugging into a standard wall socket.
Also, is it actually illegal to retain the standard AC plug?
Glen Lewis
cut it off and use something else, I don't know if it is illegal, but it should be common sense that you shouldn't put a standard AC plug on anything that doesn't use standard mains voltage
-Lasse
If it is physically possible for someone to plug the lamp into a 120 VAC outlet, as a practical matter I believe that you *must* assume that someone will do so.
It's an unfortunate truth that many people won't read warning labels, no matter how obvious you make them. Some people cannot read English (or whatever the local language may be). Some won't see the label. Some will see it and ignore it because they're in a hurry.
I believe it's a fundamental of good design practice (and, I rather imagine, codified in the National Electric Code) that one does not use physically-compatible connectors, in situations where there are physically incompatible voltages present. I don't have a copy of the NEC available, but I'd be surprised if the code did not specify that the standard 110-volt outlet and receptacle formats are to be used
*only* for these voltages and none other.It may or may not be strictly "illegal" to retain the standard AC plug, in your situation. I believe it would be extremely foolish to do so. If somebody were to plug such a lamp into 120 VAC, and *any* sort of damage or injury were to occur, you could easily find yourself facing (at the least) a civil lawsuit in the grounds of "strict liability"... that is, you "knew or should have known" that the lamps you were selling or distributing or handing out were likely to put people at risk.
You'd be much better off selecting a suitable 12-volt-DC connector and using it consistently, on these lamps and on the power supplies you are using them with.
For what it's worth, the amateur-radio ARES groups have mostly settled on the use of Anderson PowerPole connectors for 12-to-14-volt-DC interconnects. They're rugged, polarized, and cannot be connected to a 120-volt receptacle or plug.
I don't think that there is any standard way to mark them. I would buy some of these and plug them onto the AC plug with a laminated card over the prongs that was also attached to the AC wire.
The key thing is that you want to force them to see the warning and to have to actually remove something before they can plug it in.
WARNING, for 12VDC ONLY. DO NOT PLUG INTO A STANDARD AC OUTLET
Probably not, but still not a wonderful idea.
** So you have a 12VDC being distributed via regular AC wiring and outlets ?
More details please.
** It would invalidate safety approval if you wanted to sell these to people.You are a master of the ambiguous question.
.... Phil
Anybody who was genuinely injured by plugging a normal 120V plug into a
120V socket would have an excellent chance of a court awarding him the OP's house and any other available assets.Doing something like that is not even as smart as owning an unfenced swimming pool.
Cheers
Phil Hobbs
-- Dr Philip C D Hobbs Principal Consultant ElectroOptical Innovations LLC Optics, Electro-optics, Photonics, Analog Electronics 160 North State Road #203 Briarcliff Manor NY 10510 USA +1 845 480 2058 hobbs at electrooptical dot net http://electrooptical.net
Why would you want to do that, if there is even the slightest chance you'll get sued ??
Why not walk into a lawyers office and hand them your check book and get it over with now.
hamilton
PS: were you going to supply the AC outlet with 12VDC on it as well ??
Are you using these at home ?!?!
Then don't put a standard *plug* on the cord!
What do you mean by "legal"?
It *won't* pass Code -- so any attempt to sell the property will place that squarely in your way as an obstacle. Even if you manage to make the sale, liability often extends for a lengthy (e.g., 5 yrs) period after the sale.
Note that "low voltage" wiring is still covered by the Code. Including *power* limitations.
Do yourself, your lawyer, etc. a big favor and "just say no". :>
Find a different connector, entirely, for "atypical" wiring needs. E.g., here, I used a small twistlock connector to connect the (low voltage) lines to the landscape lighting. At the very least, it causes anyone wanting to connect to it to pause and ask, "WTF?"
Likewise, be careful in your choice of *conductors*. E.g., running a length of #12/2 ROMEX might *seem* like a good idea (inexpensive, easy to handle, etc.) but can give you a fair bit of grief if an inspector comes across it and wonders why there's
*DC* on the pair...Hey, you could always ask AN ELECTRICIAN specializing in low voltage wiring/signaling (pretty common, nowadays)! :>
Are you using them in an RV, boat or something like that, or is it some kind of solar power situation?
I think I've seen a lamp that used a regular 120V plug for 12V (had a
12V Edison-base incandescent), but that was a very long time ago. The advice to cut the plug off and use a different kind of plug is good.Best regards, Spehro Pefhany
-- "it's the network..." "The Journey is the reward" speff@interlog.com Info for manufacturers: http://www.trexon.com Embedded software/hardware/analog Info for designers: http://www.speff.com
Illegal or not, the end result as far as your personal liability is concerned is just as criminal. So, bad idea. Think "ambulance chaser".
"Spehro Pefhany"
** Another good reason is that plain brass contacts are not reliable at 12V DC - the brown tarnish that builds up over time can become enough to prevent conduction. 12V stuff is invariably plated with nickel or silver alloy.Note how 12V LED lights ( in ES fitting ) all have shiny, plated screw threads.
.... Phil
This brings me back to when I was quite young. One of my buds had his stereo speakers connected via regular extension cords. I mentioned it.......
Well one day, you can guess what happened. Shame it was so convenient to move speakers around or someting like that. Of course after the one day, certain componante only needed to be moved one more time, out to the trash.
** LOL.
A guy who was a * licensed electrician * here ( Australia) decided one day to use a regular 240V, 3 pin switched outlet and 3 pin plug to connect a 12V hand held motor to a 12V auto battery. This was part of his kit for starting the engines of model racing boats. We were members of the same club.
On seeing it, I queried his choice and he defended the idea on grounds of how reliable 240V plugs and outlets normally were.
He had no idea about the potential electrocution hazard he had just reated - let alone the illegality.
I sure hope he never loaned that 12V motor to anyone, cos it was lethal.
... Phil
And, perhaps, "Inigo Montoya".
"mpm"
** Think you might be exaggerating.If someone did plug the 12V LED lamp into a 120V lamp socket - what happens ?
Bang, puff of smoke and no more lamp.
Having just plugged the lamp cord into the AC supply, poking fingers up into the socket and getting a shock is THEIR fault.
12V lamps ( of any sort) with ES27 sockets always have a BIG risk of accidentally winding up in the wrong fitting and must NOT present a hazard if they do.... Phil
Yeah, reliable, just like the electric chair. But then if you saw "The Gree n Mile" you know even those can be used improperly, with some not so good r esults.
Thinking here, there probably is no law against it per se, just regulations , unless......
If there is a law it would be to not connect anything not UL listed to the male end of an electrical cord designed for use in a standard wall socket, in that country of course. Though ignorance of the law is no excuse, of reg ular folks, I mean the type who know nothing about this stuff, how many wou ld know of such a law ?
Law of the ignorance ?
Anyway, I would assume that in the good countries they probably taught some thing about that in school but I am in the US. I mean, there are people her e in their fifties who don't know shit they should've known when they were ten.
I have no problem with them getting a Darwin award really because I am sick of ignorance. But someone else might get their hands on it and.....
Is it actually illegal to use them for low voltage circuits or just extremely ill advised because of the obvious potential consequences?
The worst I ever came across was at a leading university lab where an idiotic graduate student had wired a UK 3 pin mains plug onto each end of a piece of cable and used that to power up a 6 way extension socket.
My accident prone friend found himself holding a live mains plug and suffered severe burns to his hand as a result of this idiotic wiring.
If they are doing it for their own use I suppose there isn't much can be done about it until afterwards with a posthumous Darwin award.
-- Regards, Martin Brown
** It would be a serious matter if an electrician did it for a customer or a manufacturer sold items with the same miss-use.
Electrical safety authorities would have a fit and insist the work be undone and the products recalled - fines could be imposed on the folks responsible.
** Thing is, if someone sees a motor with a 3 pin AC plug on the end lying around - sooner or later they are gonna do the bleeding obvious with it. 12V starter motors for model hobbies normally have one conductor wired direct to the steel case and a squeeze switch to turn it on.The guy who did it is not gonna be the victim.
... Phil
"David Platt"
** Could not agree more - a friend put me onto them 20 years ago for use with my 1/10 scale model racing cars.The combination of spring steel pressure with soft silver contacts and modular construction is a winner.
This U-Tube really rubs it in.
... Phil
What do you mean by "illegal"?
A cop isn't going to bust down your door and haul you off to jail. But, a building inspector could cite you for a violation and, potentially, lock you out of the edifice until it is rectified.
The more practical result is any loss from fire (or other liability) that can be traced to improper wiring (plumbing, etc.) can leave you on the hook for the "damages".
When we moved into this house, previous owner had replaced a "three way" (i.e., SPST) switch with a "regular" (SPST) switch. Puzzled by the "extra wire" (traveler), he opted to connect it to the third screw on said switch: the nice pretty green one conveniently located on the *frame* of the switch!
[Of course, plastic Jboxes meant this never caused a fault; and, obviously, the ground/earth *conductor* was neatly tucked into the Jbox so *it's* purpose had been subverted...]And, no one apparently caught the screwup when SWMBO closed on the property.
[They also never caught the live circuit dangling inside the dining room wall for the outlet that was never installed, there!]At another residence, I was cautioned "not to plug anything into the outlet behind the refrigerator". It had allegedly "blown up" some appliance that had the misfortune to be connected there.
[Yeah. Right. "Blew up"... pshaw!]Sure as hell, someone had installed a replacement outlet and grabbed the *two* hot legs of a 12/3 w/gnd circuit to use in place of the hot+neutral.
As a kid, we had purchased a large 220VAC air conditioner (window unit). But, it didn't appear to work! Until we discovered that the previous owner had replaced the cord with something he had cobbled together -- with one too few conductors: "I'll just use this nice green wire for the second hot leg..."
Or, the guy who serviced the swamp cooler, here, before I arrived. Installing a 120VAC pump on the 220VAC feed for the cooler. (first thing I had to replace as it lasted less than a month like that! "WTF? This is a 120V pump. What fool installed *this*?")
Everyone always thinks its easy -- cuz it *looks* easy/simple!
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