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It is my understanding that many of the proposed mechanisms for magnetic field/biological interaction [like those that affect the calcium ion during cell mitosis, or neuron activity] are NOT related to magnitude, but rather specific 'bands' of magnitudes. That is one of the justifications for discounting much of the epidemological relationships purported to be found. It's just that people think in terms of amplitude and not specific amplitudes. Like adding fertilizer to the lawn, a little is ok, too much causes death to the plants. In magnetics a little goes unnoticed and at certain amplitudes some wild interchanges take place, then at way more, again, nothing much happens. So trying to blindly correlate magnetic field to interaction has not resulted in much success.

There was potential evidence of this phenomenon in downtown San Jose, CA. There is a govt building there that consists of two identical wings, built same time, built same materials, serviced by same heating/etc, even hit by the same radar beams from the nearby airport, YET the west wing was deemed a 'sick' building and had 15 cases of one of the rarest forms of cancer brain tumours and the east wing was clean. What was completely left out of the ensuing investigation was the fact that people in the west wing usually parked their cars in an informal area across Guadalupe Pkwy, directly under high tension lines coming into the city and people in the east wing usually used the allocated parking, an isolated parking lot far away from lines. Every day the people who parked under the lines would get in and out of their cars exposing themselves to wildly gyrating values of magnetic field 'sucked' in by the metal of the cars. Shortly after a widow appeared on the Heraldo Show as part of gaining public sympathy for her 'wrongful death' case; the utilities company stripped out the high tension lines and put in very expensive buried ground distribution - and all symptoms stopped.

The epidemiologist at that time told me the cancer was actually a slow growing cancer appearing in a wide population of many, many people, but that people usually died of old age before the cancer advanced enough to have any symptoms appear. She felt something had 'triggered' the cancer to grow at a faster rate, thus young people were getting the 'observable' tumours. That falls in line with some scientists' claims that magnetic field/biological interaction is that the field encourages certain types of cell growths.

Reply to
RobertMacy
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Yes, there are also claims that too low background ionized radiation levels are harmful, as well as children living in ultra clean environment have a lot more allergic problems compared to children growing up on a dirty farm.

The current in HT lines aren't that huge. In practice (loss costs), the current density used is about 1 A/mm² and due to skin effect, it does not make sense to use conductor diameters greater than 20-30 mm, so we are talking about 300-800 A. Of course, bundling 2-4 conductors with spacers could increase this value. The distance to these conductors is quite large.

Compare this to the currents used in arc welding, in which comparable currents flow much closer to humans.Wouldn't arc welders suffer the same cancers ?

It sounds much more like some voltage gradient issue (over 10 kV/m).

In a ground cable, it is quite easy to kill the external electrostatic field with a simple shield.

Getting rid of the external magnetic field is harder, Of course, if the phase currents are balanced and conductors are properly twisted, the external magnetic field will cancel, at least when measured a few meters away from the underground cable.

Again, this suggests that the issue was with the electric field, not the magnetic field.

Reply to
upsidedown

To be fair, cancers from welding fumes and UV exposure might hide anything in the "dubious" category (i.e., something that kills you maybe a few years early, of dubious statistical significance to begin with). And to be even more fair, I don't know life expectancy of a weldor to begin with, which would be a start. :)

Tim

--
Seven Transistor Labs 
Electrical Engineering Consultation 
Website: http://seventransistorlabs.com
Reply to
Tim Williams

Earth-ionosphere cavity waves propagate around the planet's circumference. This is not the same a local magnetic field intensity. But interaction between the two may show up in exps.

The general idea is to place them in a Faraday cage with the emitter coil which is driven by the remotely acquired signal. There is nothing inherently advantageous about it being remote, except that it would be impractical to build a sensor at each cooperative test facility. Some have limited funds as well.

Yes, it is time for some serious bench work. These are the building blocks we have on hand. Nothing too sophisticated, yet. Hopefully just enough to get something up and running.

XY coils

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EEG-type amp (less LPF and isolation). Low parts count here.

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LabJack DAQ module

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Software LPF in SciLab

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Real time streaming protocols, TBD

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Or possibly HTTP

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I am sure most here have better things to do than view all these links, but that is the general concept so far.

Any additional commments or suggestions (or dire predictions) are most welcome.

Mark Harris

Reply to
mharris

I believe this is termed "windowing". It is analogous to frequency resonance, except in terms of amplitude. There is no way we are anywhere close to understanding all the permutations of these.

The relatively unchecked deployment of electro-technologies means the human race is implicitly toying with it own biological responses, and hoping for the best.

Even light bulbs cause cancer by inhibiting melatonin production at night.

It's an open air laboratory.

Mark Harris

Reply to
mharris

You mean there's like 20 channels of data ?

In what (other) way(s) it it like an EEG be specific and precise.

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Reply to
Jasen Betts

HT lines cause ozone ozone is heavier than air, heavier even than CO2 ozone causes cancer

dunno if that effect is strong enough to be significant though.

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Reply to
Jasen Betts

and, shorted out by the conductivity of flesh.

and, magnetic fields penetrate like gang-buster.

You should do some calculations/measurements.

Reply to
RobertMacy

There was a QEX article on ferrite loops in the July/August 2008 edition. It turns out there is a diminishing return on winding the core from end to end. That is, the inductance is not going up linearly, but the capacitance is. The winding should cover about 80% of the rod according to the author, but looking at the graph, I'd cut it off at 60%.

An interesting conclusion was you should use type 61 material for all frequencies.

The author's website is

I don't see that paper on the website unfortunately.

Reply to
miso

Sounds about right.

Hmm, #61 is kind of expensive (it contains nickel, eh?). I suppose in RF, one assumes #77 or etc. is unacceptable from the get-go (true over, say, a few hundred kHz), but obviously handy to keep in mind for SMPS. If one happens upon powdered iron rods, those would be suitable too (presumably, even cheaper than the cheapest ferrites, but the scarcity might suggest otherwise).

Tim

--
Seven Transistor Labs 
Electrical Engineering Consultation 
Website: http://seventransistorlabs.com
Reply to
Tim Williams

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