12V Electronic Tranny

Hi all,

I purchased an "electronic transformer" today - the sort intended for use with domestic 12 volt lighting. Despite the very modest price, the unit is labelled " Made in Australia " ! The "12 volt" output from these devices is in fact a 100% amplitude modulated 50 kHz wave - modulation is at 100/120 Hz.

Ratings marked on my unit include 11.5 volts, 60VA & pf = 0.95 - plus it carries the double insulation symbol.

It needed to replace a similar, failed unit inside a lighting effect device as used in discos etc. The effect employs a 12 volt, 100 watt dichroic lamp plus an 80mm, 12 volt fan blowing across PSU and lamp ( the plastic case is removed from the PCB for my app).

Initially, I imagined that the 60 VA rating would be inadequate for the 100 watt lamp load, but on test it proved to work fine with very little heating of any of the parts - even with no fan cooling. Efficiency must be 95% or better.

The circuit design is astonishingly simple, basically just 2 mosfets, a few power diodes & low value plastic caps and a couple of small, ferrite transformers.

The puzzle is how exactly the maker arrives at the VA rating.

Why is it considered "60VA" when nothing on the PCB rises more than 10 degrees C with a 100VA load in free air ?

I can only guess it relates to voltage regulation with varying load as actual output voltage follows the AC input.

........ Phil

Reply to
Phil Allison
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How about tracing the circuit and posting a nice ASCII schematic, with component values, for us to sink our teeth into? Maybe you could unsolder the transformer and characterize it as well? :-)

--
 Thanks,
    - Win
Reply to
Winfield Hill

Iron powder devices can have poor performance as they age, under heat, and can catastrophically destruct. Maybe it's due to that.

I'd be interested to see if it still only warms by 10C at 50C ambient.

Reply to
Ian Stirling

Hello Ian,

They also have a rather large tolerance.

Regards, Joerg

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Reply to
Joerg

"Winfield Hill"

** Win's trolling is getting more and more desperate.

....... Phil

Reply to
Phil Allison

"Ian Stirling"

** Dunno where you saw any mention of "iron powder".

The wound parts all have ferrite cores.

........ Phil

Reply to
Phil Allison

unless the iron powder core has gone rusty, its pretty hard to tell it from ferrite. especially if the cores are coated.

Cheers Terry

Reply to
Terry Given

** The transformer cores are uncoated ferrite.

The temp rise is but a few degrees.

Your shift key still faulty ??

........ Phil

Reply to
Phil Allison

The important temperature rise is that of the ferrite cores inside the winding. Some ferrite materials have Curie points down to 100C, so your part may need to run a lot colder than you might expect.

--
Bill Sloman, Nijmegen
Reply to
bill.sloman

** The output transformer is made with two ferrite E cores - so most of it is in free air.

As stated - the temp rise with 100VA load is not more than 10 degrees C.

BTW

The two switching devices are actually BJTs.

ST 13007 DFP.

........ Phil

Reply to
Phil Allison

The temperature rise at the surface of the transformer maybe 10C under the conditions of your test. The heat is being dissipated inside the coil and inside the ferrite. For the heat to flow to the surface, there has to be a temperature gradient in the ferrite and in the coil. Copper is a pretty good thermal conductor, so you don't get much of a thermal gradient in the coil. The ferrite is a better insulator - nowhere near as good as air, but lots better than copper.

You'd need to drill an angled hole into the ferrite under the coil to get closer to the temperature rise where it matters.

You also need to worry about the degradation in the performace of the ferrite with increasing temperature. It completely stops being ferromagnetic at the Curie point, but it isn't up to much when it gets close to that sort of temperature.

--
Bill Sloman, Nijmegen
Reply to
bill.sloman

** What a load of **f****ng** gobbledegook !!!!!!!

The core is TINY !!

There is SFA temp gradient .

** Is this ranting f****it on drugs ?

Or has he forgotten to take them ????

** Sure - at 150 C maybe.

Not 50C.

Piss of slow man.

......... Phil

Reply to
Phil Allison

What's your problem, man?

Reply to
Mochuelo

Jeezis, Allison, can't you keep a civil tongue in your head even when your asking for our help?

Screw you.

Rich

Reply to
Rich Grise

If I haven't dumbed down the message enough already, you need to post your questions on sci.electronics.basics.

What is tiny in millimetres (or inches - I happen to understand both).

Not a recognised egineering unit. You seem to want to think that it is negligible, but until you've done the minimal amount of work needed to work out what it might b, you are just an optimisitc idiot. Had you asked nicely, I might have taken the time to do some of the work for you.

Sure - a beta-blocker, and ACE-inhibitor, a statin and a trivial dose of some diuretic, which my little brother suspects of synergy with the ACE-inhibitor.

Obviously not, or my blood pressure would have gone through the roof while reading this twaddle.

Depends on the ferrite. Some are good 450C, some fall over at 100C.

How would you know?

Your abuse is at the same infantile level as your electronics. Go and read some Richard Steven Waltz, and see if you can raise your game to merely despicable.

--
Bill Sloman, Nijmegen
Reply to
bill.sloman

"Mochuelo"

** Too many deadheads like you on usenet.

........ Phil

Reply to
Phil Allison

"Rich Grise"

(snip childish & mindless abuse)

** The day this Grise cretin adds other than misinformation to NG will be a cold one in hell.

........ Phil

Reply to
Phil Allison

** What pathetic, posturing old fool you are.

Piss off.

** The core is 25 mm square.

The whole tranny is 25 x 25 x 22 mms.

** Piss off - you posturing old FOOL.
** Shame there is no cure for autism or narcissism.

** When you get something right - I will let YOU know.

Meanwhile - piss off.

......... Phil

Reply to
Phil Allison

You're most likely infringing upon safety margins of the components. What's your problem that you couldn't buy a 150W unit? The circuit your dealing with is a MOSFET version of this, a self-oscillating half bridge:

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Reply to
Fred Bloggs

Cretin is way too good a word for that ignorant sociopathic fag...

Reply to
Fred Bloggs

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