New query for low cost PCB CAD that *works*

Good for you.

Hi Robert,

Ok, that sounds like it is within the range of what should work with Eagle.

I presume that you are using a mouse, and not some strange game console to do your point and select?

Also, did you read the instructions, and try the demo?

There has to be a clue here somewhere, as tens of thousands use the program, and find it useful.... and yet you cannot get it to do the simplest most basic of commands.

-Chuck

Perhaps at this point, you should ask Joerg how to add and delete parts in Eagle. I would bet that he can clear up your problem. Eagle is intensely popular among hobbiests, it works for them, it *should* work for you, if you use it correctly.

-Chuck

That is too bad for you. I also use Eagle almost exclusively (the only time I don't is when a customer really wants design done in something else, but that is rare and I often convince them to use Eagle instead).

IMHO, the differentiating factors are:

The help is complete but it presupposes that you already know the answer so that is its one downfall. This has been expressed many times and will hopefully be addressed soon. Some users have a done a couple of things to try to form a stop gap.

I use Eagle on Windows and Linux and I"m excited that it now runs on Mac. Although with their new x86 announcement that isn't the biggest deal that it once was.

If you want send me your design files and I'll see what is up. Obviously you can add and delete components so something isn't quite right.

Cheers,

James.

Robert,

I know what you mean about the help file. It isn't very deep. Going through the tutorial in the help file may help you get started.

When I am making schematic parts, I am usually in a hurry and don't try to make the part look like a symbol, I just put down the number of pins I need, name and number the pins, put a polyline rectangle around it to give it form, and name the part. That only takes a couple of minutes, and I can get on with the schematic.

If you wish to make a dual NPN that symbolically looks like two NPNs, that should be fairly simple. Let me see if I can walk you through it.

Now, if you were making a new part from scratch, you would use the items on the Object menu to place a pin or text or a polyline (that's the blue lines). Modifying them works as above. Hope this helps.

PH

Robert Baer wrote:

You have to download the "system modules" too.

This information is on the download pages of their web site.

However, I suggest you use something else. Vutrax does, I'm afraid, have some hoops to be jumped through!

(I have nothing against Vutrax. I have been using it exclusively in successive incarnations for 15 years. But it is not for the faint hearted... If you are not able or not prepared to interpret the download instructions, it seems to me that there is not much chance you are going to put in the much larger effort that is required to master the program itself.)

Hello Chuck,

It's simple. Either you use the cross for deleting and the gate sign for adding or do it via the menus. Since I am old fashioned and have a hard time with pictograms and icons (ok, I admit it, I hate them...) here is the classical way:

Edit -> Add (library window pops up to select what's added) Edit -> Delete

That's pretty straight forward, I think.

Regards, Joerg

No, i cannot add or delete parts; do not re-word what i stated previously. This was the second time out of the gate that Eagle demo did not work, and as far as i am concerned, that is three times too many. Now if someone was wwilling to *pay* me to waste my time f*ing around with something that does not work, then it would have to be a *lot* of money to pay my headshrink bills, as that would drive me nuts.

I use a mouse and the demo did not work either. I quit beating that dead horse after an hour of wasted time, so forget it and help on the others if you can.

...."edit the pins" is where i have the problem; new names and pin numbers do not "stick". See what i said i would like (E1,B1,C1, etc) and pin numbers as well (1...6). That way, when i draw the schematic i can connect E2 to C1, B2 to V2, etc.

....i do not remember seeing File or Save in the editing,but did find that every change i made was saved (automatically?) so that does not make me concerned.

...did not get anywhere from scratch, so tried the copy schems which was very sucessful.

....Will go back to WinQcad and try some more as you suggest.

I realized I was using a slightly older version, and that may have been causing a bit of confusion.

I wonder if you are editting the pins in the schematic editor instead of the part editor. That may be where you are getting stuck. When you first fire up the program, click on PartEdit instead of SchEdit. Then, the instructions I gave before should be largely correct. When you are editting pins, you should see Pin, Electrical Type, Shape, Pin Name, and Pin Number at the top of the screen. There are also check boxes for showing the Pin Name and Pin Number. Changing the Pin Number from 3 to

Now, for what you want to do, you probably don't want to show the Pin Name because that seems to be locked onto the pin and can't be moved around, and would make for an ugly symbol. You can place text next to the pin seperately by clicking on the Place Text command on the Object Menu. Then enter your text and hit place and drop it next to the pin. Anything you do to the part in the part editor makes a single 'entity', so to speak, that you move as a whole in the schematic editor, so the text you are placing will follow the part.

If this still doesn't get you going, perhaps you could send me a picture of what you are doing.

PH

Robert Baer wrote:

You've not got broadband yet then... I just downloaded two 4.7GB DVDs (ubuntu and knoppix linux)!

Seriously, I don't think that is a lot these days... ISTR e.g. the xilinx web pack was several hundred MB. Vutrax is pretty compact and efficient, probably because its pedigree dates from DOS days so it had to be. (Although it has been windows-only for years now!)

I imagine your main problem will be getting lost (both in the software itself and in the documentation). Do the tutorials, look at the supplied examples. I can help if you get stuck; the author hangs out here too.

------------- SNIPped for brevity ------------- I was definitely in Part Edit, and the headings were as you mentioned. I will just have to set aside some time to work some more at it; been busy on making a quick and dirty HV regulator tester...

This is probably not at all helpful, but I haven't found an inexpensive PCB layout tool that's worth the money you pay for it.

I found Eagle to be very frustrating, but I suppose that's because the user interface is completely kooky.

And, I guess my point is that once you're used to better tools -- Protel DXP or PCAD, to name two, and Mentor if you've got VC funding -- you find that the cheap tools don't do what you want them to do, or if they do, then not as efficiently as more-expensive tools.

-a

I don't think this is entirely true. Some years ago we did an extensive survey of EDA tools covering schematic capture, simulation and PCB layout. We were not particularly financially restrained, believing it is worth investing in the right tools. We look at a very wide range of products from quite low cost up to Mentor and the like.

In the end after extensive tests we decided an a system at the Mentor level/cost (I won't mention the name). It was a disaster. It was not at all efficient. After much soul searching we sent it back and got something much cheaper that was far more intuitive and cheap to run.

Ian

And that was.....??? Come on, don't leave us in suspense!

I have minimal experience of such things but.... Cadstar.

DNA