Tell Telstra to stop sending you dead trees.

That was my understanding.

Reply to
terryc
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John Tserkezis wrote

That isnt the reason for the obsolete entrys.

More likely they just dont clean up the obsolete entrys very effectively.

They do both.

That wont happen because there are plenty of current entrys.

Reply to
Rod Speed

You get people in there (and just about everything) that just don't give a shit, and are incompetent.

This seems to be the case with most things now. There is little or no reward for doing the right or sensible thing.

Could also be that they leave ads in there to make the book look more comprehensive than it actually is ?

Don't know much about this industry.

ries?

There are.

Reply to
kreed

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Smart meters are already in use in NSW for some customers, and are being progressively rolled out for all. The price per kWh varies during the day, and also depends on whether it's a week day, or weekend. However, the price in each period is fixed, and stated in advance. It does not depend on the actual total load on the network. In particular, it does not rise steeply on very hot days when the load goes up significantly because of the use of air conditioners.

While charging more during periods of unsually high demand would be possible, there is a problem in that consumers would not know at any given time how much they are paying for the electricity they are consuming. I think that would be politically very difficult.

Sylvia.

Reply to
Sylvia Else

kreed wrote

Yep, and there are always more in what used to be by far the biggest sheltered workshop in the entire country too.

Operations like that always attract some of the worst of the dregs.

Its surprisingly difficult to do. iinet does it surprisingly well, but there arent all that many that do.

Thats certainly possible. You certainly see that sort of thing with free to air TV ads.

And I know that because I know some people who have paid for the ads and have ended up with rather more than they paid for because they prefer to repeat some ads for free rather than to not have anything to put in a spot that no one signed up for etc.

Reply to
Rod Speed

ALWAYS".

phones

telephone

I got a bag full of round tuits from ebay.

Reply to
F Murtz

Which smart meter? my understanding is that it is easy for the consumer to find out costs and consequently adjust their power demands. Basically the whole rationale for them.

Reply to
terryc

:On 7/09/2010 7:04 PM, Ross Herbert wrote: : :>

:> Ah, but when you get on the NBN you won't have that reliable plain old telephone :> service anymore when mains power fails - unless you buy your own UPS back-up :> battery... Just pray that it is not an emergency 000 call you want to make. :>

: :I use the Optus cable network for both Internet and phone access. The :network has battery backup, and continues to function during power :outages. I see no reason the NBN wouldn't be the same. : :Sylvia.

A FTTH NBN is a totally passive network, ie. no power is transmitted down the cable. Every home on the NBN will have an Optical Network Terminal through which ALL residential services (including the fixed telephone) must operate. As such, the ONT is powered from the domestic ac mains supply with a UPS. In order to keep the ONT operating during mains power outages the UPS must be fitted with a back-up battery (approximately 3 hours of reserve). The current policy is that the homeowner must pay for the supply and installation of the battery if they want communications to be maintained during power outages. In addition, the UPS only issues a battery failure warning by a visual indicator so unless you are continuously aware of this indication there is the likelihood that you will only find out your battery is dead when you need to use the telephone during a power outage.

Here is the battery reminder document issued by Telstra for its Velocity customers (which is essentially the defacto standard for all NBN customers).

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Reply to
Ross Herbert

:On Tue, 07 Sep 2010 17:04:50 +0800, Ross Herbert wrote: : :>On Sun, 05 Sep 2010 17:57:04 +1000, Don McKenzie wrote: :>

:>:On 5/09/2010 5:43 PM, terryc wrote: :>:> On Sun, 05 Sep 2010 08:07:09 +1000, Don McKenzie wrote: :>:>

:>:>> Tell Telstra to stop sending you dead trees. :>:>>

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:>:>>

:>:>> I was asking about this a couple of days ago, as I haven't looked in a :>:>> phone directory for many years. So why not stop phone books being :>:>> delivered? :>:>

:>:> Well, the power goes off due to a house fault and you need to call an :>:> electrician, what do you do? :>: :>:I figure you do the same as when your hard drive crashes and you have no :>backup. You panic! Then you ask this group how :>:you can get your data from a dead drive. :-) :>: :>:I have always kept a standard 50VDC operated phone plugged in. "I MEAN ALWAYS". :>You don't need one plugged in, just :>:handy, but mine is. That way, when I need to count to a 100+ for some silly :>reason, and don't need a phone ring :>:disruption, I drop it off the hook. Saves the batteries on the wireless phones :>also. :>

:>Ah, but when you get on the NBN you won't have that reliable plain old telephone :>service anymore when mains power fails - unless you buy your own UPS back-up :>battery... Just pray that it is not an emergency 000 call you want to make. : :What, NBN == no existing copper service? That'll be a forced changeover :only 'cos Telstra private let the network rot for years.

Indeed. That's the situation currently envisaged.

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quote; Delivery of Universal Service Obligations within NBN Fibre Coverage Areas

Telstra will have a regulated obligation to continue to operate and maintain its existing copper lines while the fibre network is rolled out, until the copper exchange associated with that fibre area is decommissioned.

For these purposes, the responsibility to deliver services under the USO will transfer from Telstra to USO Co from the date that premises in an NBN fibre coverage area are no longer actively connected to the copper exchange.

USO Co will meet the agreed cost of migrating voice-only customers to a fibre service after the Telstra copper exchange is decommissioned. The protocols for determining when individual copper exchanges within the NBN fibre coverage areas are to be decommissioned will be agreed between the Government, NBN Co and Telstra. (Telstra will be separately required to provide the ACCC with a migration plan that sets out the mechanisms and time frames for migrating customers from its copper network to the NBN). unquote.

As you will be aware, The federal government will pay Telstra $B11 to acquire its existing copper based customer infrastructure. This means that existing copper based services will eventually be discontinued and dedicated telephone exchanges will be decommissioned as stated above.

: :>:And the Sparkies fridge magnet is on the fridge where it belongs. :-) : :I got some big batteries, want my place to light up bright when the power :goes off, make everyone else in the street feel mad, must be their place ;) : :Haven't found a round tuit for years, we don't get that many power fails. :

You may be fortunate to have underground power where reliability is high but most consumers still have wooden power pole distribution and these poles are notorious for not being properly maintained and falling over during a storm or burning down during a bushfire.

Murphy says that when you most need to use the phone the mains power will be off for 5 hours and your UPS battery will be flat.

Reply to
Ross Herbert

back-up

which

only

That may be the way Telstra does it, but that doesn't mean the NBN will be the same. Do you have a reference to anything that gives a definitive statement on how the NBN will work?

Sylvia.

Reply to
Sylvia Else

The main rationale for them is that they capture the regularly varying costs of supplying electricity not that they capture the high costs of exceptional peaks. There is no provision of realtime pricing information to consumers.

Sylvia.

Reply to
Sylvia Else

ALWAYS".

telephone

Perhaps I just use one of the four mobile phones floating around here. :-) How many does the average household have these days?

Cheers Don...

--
Don McKenzie

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Reply to
Don McKenzie

Agreed, you simply do whatever is needed to have a backup system.

Cheers Don...

--
Don McKenzie

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Reply to
Don McKenzie

:On 7/09/2010 7:04 PM, Ross Herbert wrote: : :> :> Well, the power goes off due to a house fault and you need to call an :> :> electrician, what do you do? :> : :> :I figure you do the same as when your hard drive crashes and you have no :> backup. You panic! Then you ask this group how :> :you can get your data from a dead drive. :-) :> : :> :I have always kept a standard 50VDC operated phone plugged in. "I MEAN ALWAYS". :> You don't need one plugged in, just :> :handy, but mine is. That way, when I need to count to a 100+ for some silly :> reason, and don't need a phone ring :> :disruption, I drop it off the hook. Saves the batteries on the wireless phones :> also. :>

:> Ah, but when you get on the NBN you won't have that reliable plain old telephone :> service anymore when mains power fails - unless you buy your own UPS back-up :> battery... Just pray that it is not an emergency 000 call you want to make. : :Perhaps I just use one of the four mobile phones floating around here. :-) :How many does the average household have these days? : :Cheers Don...

That's fine when you have grown up with this form of technology. But the increasing complexity of driving a modern mobile phone can be a daunting task for the elderly who just want simplicity and a reliable communications service. The elderly may use a mobile infrequently and may even forget where they last left it. They also don't want to be fussed with the constant requirement to make sure the battery is always charged. These days mobiles all have graphics displays and try to outcompete each other by making the buttons smaller so you can't get your aging fingers on the buttons without errors. And then there is the complexity of driving the multiple menu functions they come with. Most of them are not intuitive to use and require many hours of studying the user guide

- and hopefully you can remember it all.

My home has exactly one mobile phone and that is only used rarely by my wife to contact me when she is out by herself and needs me to pick her up when she is ready. I don't like mobile phones and I have grown up with this technology.

I don't need GPS or internet or video record and replay on a mobile phone so when I can buy a mobile which can run for at least 6 months without charging, and allows me to do nothing other than make and receive calls, then I will get one.

Reply to
Ross Herbert

:On 8/09/2010 4:41 PM, Ross Herbert wrote: :> On Tue, 07 Sep 2010 19:07:46 +1000, Sylvia Else wrote: :>

:> :On 7/09/2010 7:04 PM, Ross Herbert wrote: :> : :> :>

:> :> Ah, but when you get on the NBN you won't have that reliable plain old :> telephone :> :> service anymore when mains power fails - unless you buy your own UPS back-up :> :> battery... Just pray that it is not an emergency 000 call you want to make. :> :>

:> : :> :I use the Optus cable network for both Internet and phone access. The :> :network has battery backup, and continues to function during power :> :outages. I see no reason the NBN wouldn't be the same. :> : :> :Sylvia. :>

:>

:> A FTTH NBN is a totally passive network, ie. no power is transmitted down the :> cable. Every home on the NBN will have an Optical Network Terminal through which :> ALL residential services (including the fixed telephone) must operate. As such, :> the ONT is powered from the domestic ac mains supply with a UPS. In order to :> keep the ONT operating during mains power outages the UPS must be fitted with a :> back-up battery (approximately 3 hours of reserve). The current policy is that :> the homeowner must pay for the supply and installation of the battery if they :> want communications to be maintained during power outages. In addition, the UPS :> only issues a battery failure warning by a visual indicator so unless you are :> continuously aware of this indication there is the likelihood that you will only :> find out your battery is dead when you need to use the telephone during a power :> outage. : :>

:> Here is the battery reminder document issued by Telstra for its Velocity :> customers (which is essentially the defacto standard for all NBN customers). :>

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: :That may be the way Telstra does it, but that doesn't mean the NBN will :be the same. Do you have a reference to anything that gives a definitive :statement on how the NBN will work? : :Sylvia.

I have communicated directly with this federal department

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and they are effectively the ones who tell Telstra what they must do. Telstra don't do anything which all other telco's aren't also forced to do. Specifically, with regard to the backup battery, the government caved in to a request from all the private telecom lobbyists to ensure that they would not be forced to provide and maintain the backup battery as a mandatory requirement when the NBN was dreamed up. That's why Telstra and all others will not be providing the battery. DBCDE agree with me that the customer is currently forced to provide and maintain their own battery when the NBN is rolled out - no matter who the service provider is.

Reply to
Ross Herbert

:On 8/09/2010 4:41 PM, Ross Herbert wrote: :> On Tue, 07 Sep 2010 19:07:46 +1000, Sylvia Else wrote: :>

:> :On 7/09/2010 7:04 PM, Ross Herbert wrote: :> : :> :>

:> :> Ah, but when you get on the NBN you won't have that reliable plain old :> telephone :> :> service anymore when mains power fails - unless you buy your own UPS back-up :> :> battery... Just pray that it is not an emergency 000 call you want to make. :> :>

:> : :> :I use the Optus cable network for both Internet and phone access. The :> :network has battery backup, and continues to function during power :> :outages. I see no reason the NBN wouldn't be the same. :> : :> :Sylvia. :>

:>

:> A FTTH NBN is a totally passive network, ie. no power is transmitted down the :> cable. Every home on the NBN will have an Optical Network Terminal through which :> ALL residential services (including the fixed telephone) must operate. As such, :> the ONT is powered from the domestic ac mains supply with a UPS. In order to :> keep the ONT operating during mains power outages the UPS must be fitted with a :> back-up battery (approximately 3 hours of reserve). The current policy is that :> the homeowner must pay for the supply and installation of the battery if they :> want communications to be maintained during power outages. In addition, the UPS :> only issues a battery failure warning by a visual indicator so unless you are :> continuously aware of this indication there is the likelihood that you will only :> find out your battery is dead when you need to use the telephone during a power :> outage. : :>

:> Here is the battery reminder document issued by Telstra for its Velocity :> customers (which is essentially the defacto standard for all NBN customers). :>

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: :That may be the way Telstra does it, but that doesn't mean the NBN will :be the same. Do you have a reference to anything that gives a definitive :statement on how the NBN will work? : :Sylvia.

Yes there is a document for the NBN. Just search for "battery".

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Reply to
Ross Herbert

Oh no, quiet suburban Bendigo, I happened to be on the other side of railway for the cyclone hit, and other side of town for another blackout

-- just dumb luck.

Too right, and it's after a few hours people really start getting concerned about freezers full of food and stuff, want to make phone calls, mobiles will die and there only be the car radio.

Sylvia's earlier link suggested 12V 7AH battery, seems big at first, but looks like it's another end user problem. While at the moment there are big centralised 48V battery backups, further backed up by diesel, not many homes will have that sort of power standby length when it goes optical.

I've lost half a PC to a modem spike insult years ago, luckily got HDD and mobo on warranty, had to buy new keyboard. They'll no longer be a problem, but we still have the mains surges ready to take stuff out.

Grant.

Reply to
Grant

My impression was that the meter would show current price, could be wrong -- I'll take much more interest one I get one fitted here. We cannot ask to jump the queue, but one of the trial ones is only 30km from my place (Castlemaine).

Going to take some time. The people who leave their aircos on all day while out at work are spoiling for others, as the govt in Vic doesn't want to build another smelly power station, we got lots of the crappiest brown 'coal' to burn, it's mostly water and thus not very efficient.

Grant.

Reply to
Grant

its

areas

off

Must've been someone else's link.

The Optus cable repeaters have taps onto the power cables immediately above them, suggesting that power isn't transmitted along the cable itself. So I'd assumed that the repeaters themselves contain backup batteries, which can't be so very big. There are certainly no backup diesels hanging there!

But then, I don't know how long after the start of an outage the Optus phone service will continue to run.

The SLA's described in the Telstra page appear to be these

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The discrepancy in the height relates to whether the connection tabs are included.

My UPS uses them. The problem is they're not cheap, as you can see, about $35 retail, and I get only about three year's use out of them even though they spend almost all the their fully charged, and are rarely called on to deliver power.

I can imagine people burning their houses down by shorting them out while changing them.

Sylvia.

Reply to
Sylvia Else

Variable tariffs are more about shifting demand than reducing it, because peaks are expensive to handle. There is a certain irony in that the more successful variable tariffs are in flattening the load curve, the more scope power generation companies have to build coal fired stations rather than less polluting gas fired stations.

Sylvia.

Reply to
Sylvia Else

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