$1b electric car infrastructure deal

couldn't agree more Dave, I think the main stumbling block is still battery technology, and not refueling stations. If the battery was good enough, and the car cheap enough, there wouldn't be a problem.

People would rent car space and power outlets in their front yards, if refueling stations was the bottle neck.

City based companies could provide for their workers, or spin a profit from company owned car parks.

Don...

--
Don McKenzie

Site Map:            http://www.dontronics.com/sitemap
E-Mail Contact Page: http://www.dontronics.com/email

http://www.dontronics-shop.com/super4-usb-relay-module.html
http://www.wizard-from-oz.com 1000\'s of electronic items

I agree. Although having a big infrastructure in place will help things immensely, both politically and practically for the first generation of cars that don't get hundreds of km per charge.

Our local shopping centre has had an electric car only space for many years, and a place I used to work at had one too (at the request of an employee who built her own fully electric car)

Dave.

an interesting read at:

quote "there is a compelling case for automobile manufacturers to jump in and build clean, safe, affordable electric cars for Australasia and Southeast Asia.? Who knows? Maybe some Australian city will become the Detroit of the 21st century?

Perhaps we do need to build the infrastructure first. Lay your eggs, and the chickens will arrive in great numbers, grasshopper!

Don...

--
Don McKenzie

Site Map:            http://www.dontronics.com/sitemap
E-Mail Contact Page: http://www.dontronics.com/email

http://www.dontronics-shop.com/super4-usb-relay-module.html
http://www.wizard-from-oz.com 1000\'s of electronic items

Dooonnn't worry - there's this clean coal thats being mined.....

!

I'm curious to know the details of this and how it's going to be implemented, both in these charging stations and the cars themselves. They will want to protect their market space somehow if it takes off.

As you said, people will rent space and a power point at their own place, along with existing service stations, parking stations, shops, work places etc. None of this needs this new "infrastructure", which is really just a special plug connection and a payment system to the existing grid.

People will no doubt try and "steal" electricity from anywhere they can.

Previous EV's have had a special plug (that looks remarkably like a petrol pump) and a control/charging box you install in your home. But ultimately I think that people will want to plug their EV into a standard mains connection as well. A potential big market for "conversions" or some form of kit that allows standard power point connection?

My friend who built her own electric car installed a standard mains plug inside the existing fuel cap and had an extension cord in the boot. Neat.

BTW, for those that haven't seen it, the movie "Who killed the electric car" is well worth a watch.

Dave.

There is already some existing renewable capacity on the grid, but not enough for a mass change overnight change of course. But as the demand for renewable energy increases, more plants will be built, and options increase as technology improves. For instance, they had to build new wind farms to power the new Sydney desalination plant, as there wasn't enough existing renewable capacity available. I'm buying 100% renewable energy to spur on the progress, aren't you?

The goal for NZ is to be using 90% renewable energy by 2025. Australia will be only 20% by 2020, but at least it's a start.

Different ball game there.

Dave.

But where is the "clean, safe, affordable" electricity going to come from? Not to mention "clean, safe, affordable" batteries!

MrT.

Nearly 30 years ago I worked near a guy that was developing a salt water battery system. The idea was it would either recharge as a conventional battery does or you could go to a normal service station where the electrolyte could be drained and then refilled as with a conventional petrol pump. The idea was to have a solenoid operated drain c*ck on the battery and the servo would have grids and a drain system that then returned the electrolyte to a main tank for a slow recharge via solar panels or conventional mains. It solved several problems.

I believe the idea was from Israel (lots of sun and salt there to) but I never heard any more about it. Conspiracy theory says a major oil company bought the patent and shelved it ;-)

This type of idea that can use renewable energy, utilise existing infrastructure and have a safe, environmentally friendly battery system would be a real hit. BTW if any one knows the guy I wouldn't mind a follow up. It was Frank Parry, the brother of Parry's, the department store in WA.

Cheers TT

Intuitively you'd think one of the plates would be eroded & consumed if the electrolyte was renewed rather than the battery recharged. Then again perhaps plate changes were part of the design / maintenance.

Maybe Robert Parry & it became --->

?

Where I found:

"Unlike the lead acid and most other batteries, the ZESS uses electrodes that cannot and do not take part in the reactions but merely serve as substrates for the reactions. There is therefore no loss of performance, unlike most rechargeable batteries, from repeated cycling causing electrode material deterioration. During the charge cycle metallic zinc is plated from the electrolyte solution onto the negative electrode surfaces in the cell stacks. Bromide is then converted to Bromine at the positive electrode surface of the cell stack and is immediately stored as a safe chemically complexed organic phase in the electrolyte tank. When the ZESS discharges, the metallic zinc plated on the negative electrode dissolves in the electrolyte and is available to be plated again at the next charge cycle. In the fully discharged state the ZESS can be left indefinitely."

What happened to the wave power test system that was to be planted on the ocean floor off Fremantle a few years back?

For a supposed "green" community Fremantle is a very odd place, I believe one of the main reasons wind turbines on the North Mole (harbour sea wall) were knocked back was that they would be "unsightly".

ah - you are correct - there is a Frank Parry too.

Still going:

and

I was in Denham in WA a few months back and had a look at the wind farm that supplies half of the towns power. They look majestic sitting up there on the hill, and the towns folk love them, they want more installed.

Flying into Germany a few years back now, it was wind farms out the window as far as the eye could see.

Very eerie standing under them when they are rotating though!

Dave.

Mmm, sounds like the Salt water 'battery" that was apparently around during WWII, but that consumed magnesium plates. The electrolyte was just "sea water". He may have had an idea that it could be reversed.

" The idea was to have a solenoid operated drain c*ck on the

Is there any currently opperating system that actually works like this now? People keep claiming it can be done with lead-acid technology, but I suspect they are mistaken.

Wouldn't it be better to use the natural and coal seam gas that will almost certainly be used to generate the electricity, directly in the car? A distribution system for the gas and a change to multi-fuel cars seems preferable to me.

Not in the long term. What happens when the gas runs out? WA already has a gas crisis.

You can buy 100% renewable electrical energy. More of it is simply a matter of demand.

Electricity already has a distribution system in place, it's called the grid.

Dave.

from?

Exactly. We need to meet current demand with 100% clean, renewable energy before we can increase demand that much. Otherwise we are simply burning coal instead of petrol. Then adding battery problems to boot!

MrT.

**Preferable, but far less efficient. Conversion efficiencies for large, thermal generation plants is MUCH higher than internal combustion engines (around double). Electric motors in vehicles routinely top 80+% efficiency. Even better, is that electric motors generate torque at zero RPM and thus are perfectly suited to stop-start motoring. Even betterer still is that regenerative braking can be used to extend the efficiency of the entire vehicle still further.

--
Trevor Wilson
www.rageaudio.com.au

**Not quite. Internal combustion engines are spectacularly inefficient, whilst thermal power stations are respectably efficient. Worse, IC engines are arguably the worst type of motor for stop-start city use. Electric motors are vastly more suited to such a task. A significantly smaller motor can be used. The Prius electric motor, for instance, though only developing 50kW, delivers around 400Nm of torque. That is the kind of planet-turning toque only achieved by V8 engines and highly tuned turbo 4 cylinder engines. It provides the Prius with quite respectable off-the-line performance, with minimal fuel use.

--
Trevor Wilson
www.rageaudio.com.au

Where are the electric cars ?

Graham

At a true (unsubsidised) cost of between twice to nearly ten times that of conventionally generated electricity.

If you want it to stay subsidised at those levels your taxes are going to go up a LOT.

Graham