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Which chipset to start?

I worked on 8048/8051/8096 about 20 years before. Since then I have not worked on any microcontroller(But I did a lot on Windows device driver, C/C++/C# programming recently). Recently, I try to catch up by looking for what chipset I need to start with. The chipset I like to start with will be:

  1. kind of "8051" like - what I mean is that it will have LONG life(8051 have exsisted more than 20 years and still kicking!).

  1. Easy to get (from online like Digi-Key or retailers for small quantity).

  2. Easy to find interface chip (USB, Internet chip, etc.) and easy to integrated with the interface chips.

  1. Widely industry use - not just for learning.

  2. Easy to get help - books, online discussion group, source code library, good vendor supports, etc.

  1. low price develop tools (for home learning).

Any advice / recommendation?

Thanks.

Reply to
yong
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yqin snipped-for-privacy@yahoo.com (yong) wrote in news: snipped-for-privacy@posting.google.com:

The 8051 is still very popular with many variants available. Why not stick with it?

Given so many different vendors of 8051's, I'd bet you could them easily. Digi-key carries both Atmel and Cygal 8051's. The Cygnal 8051's even have JTAG program and debug built in.

Yup, 8051's.

Yup, 8051's.

Yup, 8051's.

Yup, 8051's. Cygnal has a $99 eval. kit.

Stick with what you know. 8051's should be around for a long time to come.

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- Mark ->
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Reply to
Mark A. Odell

You maybe should look at the ARM processors. Plenty of vendors out there. Atmels AVR can generally do most things better than the 8051.

--
Best Regards
Ulf at atmel dot com
These comments are intended to be my own opinion and they
may, or may not be shared by my employer, Atmel Sweden.
Reply to
Ulf Samuelsson

As Mark said, why not get back into the swing of things with the 8051? Play catch-up on the new features (peripherals) without having to learn a whole new instruction set.

After that, you can branch out to others like PIC, AVR, MSP430, ARM.

Reply to
Gary Kato

What is the annual sale for PIC and AVR? Is AVR catching up or the market still in favor of PIC?

Reply to
yong

yqin snipped-for-privacy@yahoo.com (yong) wrote in news: snipped-for-privacy@posting.google.com:

I thought the market was still in favor of 8051.

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- Mark ->
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Reply to
Mark A. Odell

"Mark A. Odell" wrote in news:Xns94219AF50FF38CopyrightMarkOdell@130.133.1.4:

Microchip now commands the most marketshare for 8 bit processors (previously Motorola).

AVRs and PICs are quite similar. Both are well accepted. I would pick one family and learn to use it well. You probably won't benefit from using devices from both companies.

8051 processors are certainly popular but are not really PIC/AVR substitutes. 
--
Al Clark
Danville Signal Processing, Inc.
--------------------------------------------------------------------
Purveyors of Fine DSP Hardware and other Cool Stuff
Available at http://www.danvillesignal.com
Reply to
Al Clark

Al Clark wrote in news:Xns9421997CD4D62aclarkdanvillesignal@66.133.130.30:

If you constrain by company, okay. But I believe, maybe falsely, that 8051 cores (by all mfgrs) out ship PIC cores.

No, I'd say PICs are more like 8051s than AVRs. AVRs were designed for use with high level languages. PICs and 8051s provide banked registers an low-latency interrupt processing.

In what regards? I can usually do the job with either PIC or 8051, very few cases require the PICs super efficient clocks/instruction cycle. Even there the Cygnal 8051s are almost one clock per instruction.

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- Mark ->
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Reply to
Mark A. Odell

"Mark A. Odell" wrote in news:Xns9421A8E56AE39CopyrightMarkOdell@130.133.1.4:

Its been awhile since I used 8051 products but here gopes.

I use PICs almost exclusively as programmable peripherals. They take virtually no extra parts and come in packages as small as 8 pins. When I look at AVRs, my impression is that they can fill the same applications for about the same price, form factor, etc.

You don't want to write a large program in a PIC. When you run out of memory you're done. 8051 products can use external memory to expand.

I find that I often have a limitation based on processing speed of a PIC in spite of their "efficient" clock instruction cycle. Maybe this is due to the fact that I use them as peripherals with DSPs.

I agree that PICs and 8051s are not C friendly. I have no experience with AVRs. All the 8051 apps that I did many years ago were not speed critical and I used C because memory was generally abundant.

PICs use the easiest assembly language, I ever learned. There are only 30 something instructions, 1 accumulator and originally 1 pointer register. I programmed my first PIC in 1/2 day including learning the assembly language.

You may be right that 8051 from all manufacturers out sell PICs (even if you don't count USB cores).

--
Al Clark
Danville Signal Processing, Inc.
--------------------------------------------------------------------
Purveyors of Fine DSP Hardware and other Cool Stuff
Available at http://www.danvillesignal.com
Reply to
Al Clark

The 8051 family is still the #1 8-bit micro for a number of reasons, not just that it is multi-sourced by a very wide variety of vendors on most continents.

In concept, not in detail, true.

Uhm, I don't think the question was whether an 8051 is a substitute for a pic/avr. The 8051 has a number of advantages over either risc microcontroller and has never been considered a 'substitute'. Comparing RISC vs. CISC is a long, drawn-out discussion entirely dependent upon application. Quite different tools for quite different applications. Do you like apples or oranges?

-- Regards, Albert

---------------------------------------------------------------------- AM Research, Inc. The Embedded Systems Experts

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Reply to
Albert Lee Mitchell

Might be true for the USA but not the rest of the world.

Ian

Reply to
Ian Bell

I heard of ARM which seems very popular in 32 bit area. Which ARM processor is most popular?

One posting said AVR is better than 8051 in most case and also easy to use high level C language programming.

I know assembly language is effcient but C code is easier to maintain and develop.

Does 8051 has free c compiler?

Reply to
yong

yqin snipped-for-privacy@yahoo.com (yong) wrote in news: snipped-for-privacy@posting.google.com:

ARMs are nice but much more complicated than 8051s, PICs, or AVRs. For small control applications the 8-bitters are just fine.

It's more suited for C since it has the notion of a stack. PICs only have a hardware return address stack and 8051s only have a max. of 248 bytes of pushable stack.

Today's mature 8051 C compilers can generate very efficient code at the project level.

Yes, I SDCC is free and supports the 8051.

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- Mark ->
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Reply to
Mark A. Odell

Sounds like the 8051 to me - (I'd drop the 8048 and 8096 though :)

There are many 80C51's with these on one chip.

80C51's would dominate the FLASH or RAM code USB devices. Cygnal, STm and Atmel have FLASH 80C51+USB. Cypress and TI have RAM-download 80C51 models.

If you want high performance ADCs+uC, there is only ONE core to choose from.

80C51 series

Al Clark wrote:

Microchip have 'bragging rights' to largest unit shipment, with an average selling price of close to $1. That indicates which 'end' of the 8 bit sandpit they play at.

Motorola's revenues are well above Microchip's, and their very low PIC ASP shows how little uptake their higher end devices actually have.

Total 80C51 annual revenues are well ahead of PIC, and any other 8 bit uC family.

6 of the top 10 Semi companies in the world offer 80C51 variants !

- jg

Reply to
Jim Granville

Is there any 8051 which has TCP/IP embedded on the chip? I want to build a system (for learning purpose) which can be controlled by Internet or which can publish data via internet.

Reply to
yong

In article , yong writes

No and yes... That is no 8051 chip with TCP'/IP embedded within it but there is a HW tcp/IP chip that is used with 8051's . there is also an

8051 stack that is available (free) with some 78051 parts.

These come from Atmel with the FREE SW stack or HW TCP/IP chip which will cost money

/\/\/\/\/\/\/\/\/\/\/\/\/\/\/\/\/\/\/\/\/\/\/\/\/\/\ \/\/\/\/\ Chris Hills Staffs England /\/\/\/\/\ /\/\/ snipped-for-privacy@phaedsys.org

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Reply to
Chris Hills

Hynix have a 20 pin 80C51 ROM device with TCP/IP on chip, but more suitable for learning purposes would be the TINI boards using Dallas 80C390/80C400 devices (now Maxim).

-jg

Reply to
Jim Granville

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Best regards, Spehro Pefhany

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Reply to
Spehro Pefhany

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