Process to Produce Hydrogen from Water Using Sunlight Reaches 16.2% Efficiency, on Its Way...

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This is major:

Researchers use a metric called solar-to-hydrogen (STH) efficiency as a sta
ndard way to evaluate PEC (Photoelectrochemical) systems based on how effec
tively they convert energy from the sun into hydrogen. In 2016, the Nationa
l Renewable Energy Laboratory broke a standing 18-year world record, demons
trating 16.2% STH efficiency over the previous 12% STH, well on its way to  
meeting the U.S. Department of Energy (DOE) target of 25%.

This will definitely transform the candidate technologies heretofore slated
 to do the transforming.


https://www.energy.gov/eere/fuelcells/fact-month-february-2019-process-prod
uce-hydrogen-water-using-sunlight-reaches-162




Re: Process to Produce Hydrogen from Water Using Sunlight Reaches 16.2% Efficiency, on Its Way to Meeting DOE Target
On Tue, 19 Feb 2019 12:30:09 -0800 (PST),
snipped-for-privacy@gmail.com wrote:

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Even better would be a self-reproducing critter that converts sunlight
and air into an oil substitute. Some super algae or something.




--  

John Larkin         Highland Technology, Inc
picosecond timing   precision measurement  

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Re: Process to Produce Hydrogen from Water Using Sunlight Reaches 16.2% Efficiency, on Its Way to Meeting DOE Target
On Tuesday, February 19, 2019 at 3:51:08 PM UTC-5, John Larkin wrote:
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standard way to evaluate PEC (Photoelectrochemical) systems based on how ef
fectively they convert energy from the sun into hydrogen. In 2016, the Nati
onal Renewable Energy Laboratory broke a standing 18-year world record, dem
onstrating 16.2% STH efficiency over the previous 12% STH, well on its way  
to meeting the U.S. Department of Energy (DOE) target of 25%.
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ted to do the transforming.
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roduce-hydrogen-water-using-sunlight-reaches-162
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They're way ahead of you:

https://news.nationalgeographic.com/2018/06/carbon-engineering-liquid-fuel-
carbon-capture-neutral-science/

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Re: Process to Produce Hydrogen from Water Using Sunlight Reaches 16.2% Efficiency, on Its Way to Meeting DOE Target
On 2019-02-19 22:29, snipped-for-privacy@gmail.com wrote:
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Even better would be a self-reproducing critter that converts sunlight
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Oh dear, filter CO2 out of the air. There's only 400ppm of it!
Oh dear, combine it with H2 produced by electrolysis to turn it
into fuel.

Words fail me to express how ridiculous this is.

Oh, they seek 30M$ of funding. I see clearer now.

Jeroen Belleman

Re: Process to Produce Hydrogen from Water Using Sunlight Reaches 16.2% Efficiency, on Its Way to Meeting DOE Target
On Tue, 19 Feb 2019 22:59:46 +0100, Jeroen Belleman

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The electrolysis thing is crazy, but trees and such work fine at 400
PPM, so some critter might convert air and sunlight into fuel
usefully. And maybe be good to eat too.

Problem is, people keep finding more and more oil and NG.


--  

John Larkin         Highland Technology, Inc
picosecond timing   precision measurement  

We've slightly trimmed the long signature. Click to see the full one.
Re: Process to Produce Hydrogen from Water Using Sunlight Reaches 16.2% Efficiency, on Its Way to Meeting DOE Target
On Wednesday, February 20, 2019 at 10:19:24 AM UTC+11, John Larkin wrote:
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ss-produce-hydrogen-water-using-sunlight-reaches-162
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fuel-carbon-capture-neutral-science/
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Natural photosynthesis - in plants as opposed to algae - captures an order  
of magnitude less energy per unit area than solar cells

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That's not a problem. The fact that they insist on digging it up and sellin
g it as fuel to push up the CO2 concentration in the atmosphere is.

John Larkin - being the gullible twit that he is - happens to have been suc
kered by denialist propaganda that is bought and paid for by the fossil car
bon extrraction industry, and is consequently blind to the problems created
 by rising CO2 level in the atmosphere

--  
Bill Sloman, Sydney

Re: Process to Produce Hydrogen from Water Using Sunlight Reaches 16.2% Efficiency, on Its Way to Meeting DOE Target
On Tuesday, February 19, 2019 at 3:19:24 PM UTC-8, John Larkin wrote:

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No, electrolysis isn't crazy.   Lye and bleach are made that way,
you know.   And it's how aluminum is refined from ore.

Learn to distinguish available technologies (useful, like electrolysis) from cultist
wishful thinking (insane, like antivaccination).   Then, apply the
appropriate labels when discussing.

Re: Process to Produce Hydrogen from Water Using Sunlight Reaches 16.2% Efficiency, on Its Way to Meeting DOE Target
whit3rd wrote:
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It *is* crazy when proposed as a source of energy.

Learn to first appreciate the context the statement was
made in.

Jeroen Belleman

Re: Process to Produce Hydrogen from Water Using Sunlight Reaches 16.2% Efficiency, on Its Way to Meeting DOE Target
On 21/02/2019 09:21, Jeroen Belleman wrote:
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It is not being proposed as a source of energy.

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You could do the same yourself.

The first link is /not/ about electrolysis - which is the use of
electricity to split molecules (often water, but not just that).  No one
thinks that is a source of energy.

The first link is actually about using solar power as the source of
energy to split the water - this is, of course, an excellent idea
(assuming the economics of making the plant are reasonable).  Hydrogen
is a very flexible and energy rich base which can be transported around
and provides clean energy.  (It is not the /source/ of the energy, but
the transport for the energy.)  It is not perfect for every use, of
course, but it /is/ useful - and if it were available cheaply, we'd see
a good deal more use of it.

The second link is about combing hydrogen with atmospheric CO? to make
hydrocarbons - clearly, a "clean" method of producing petrol would be an
ideal way to re-use existing cars and infrastructures in an
environmentally friendly way.  The article does say they are making the
hydrogen by electrolysis - but the power source is hydroelectric.  No
one suggests the electrolysis is the energy source.  And if there is a
cheaper clean source of hydrogen - such as producing it directly with
sunlight - then they would use that.


Re: Process to Produce Hydrogen from Water Using Sunlight Reaches 16.2% Efficiency, on Its Way to Meeting DOE Target
David Brown wrote:
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The link was about scrubbing CO2 from the atmosphere, combining
that with hydrogen obtained via electrolysis to produce fuel.

If you don't think that's crazy, then sorry, but you are beyond
help.

OK, they don't mention where the electricity to obtain the H2
is coming from. That makes it worse, not better.

Jeroen Belleman

Re: Process to Produce Hydrogen from Water Using Sunlight Reaches 16.2% Efficiency, on Its Way to Meeting DOE Target
On 21/02/2019 15:46, Jeroen Belleman wrote:
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Please re-read what I wrote, and think about it rather than being so
keen on calling people and ideas "crazy".

Note that I have no idea how economical or efficient this whole idea is
- I will reserve judgement on its "craziness" until I know that.

As a general point, we are getting steady improvement of the
availability of cheap clean energy.  But that energy is often most
efficiently produced in a place where it is least practical for
immediate use - solar energy in a desert, wind energy out at sea, etc.
And converting users of dirty energy sources - primarily oil products -
into users of clean energy is difficult, expensive, and loses
convenience.  Therefore it makes sense to make clean energy somewhere
that has plentiful supplies, and turn it into practical alternatives to
fossil fuels.  You keep the convenience of oil-based energy, but stop
killing the planet.

So the principle here is far from crazy - it is an excellent idea.  But
the /practice/ of it depends on the efficiencies.  Pulling CO? out the
atmosphere will take energy, and that could easily be the killer here.
(The electrolysis for generating the hydrogen is a minor point.)  And it
would all need to be done on a massive scale to be helpful.




Re: Process to Produce Hydrogen from Water Using Sunlight Reaches 16.2% Efficiency, on Its Way to Meeting DOE Target
On Thursday, 21 February 2019 15:12:34 UTC, David Brown  wrote:
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:
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0

at way,

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pply the
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 No one
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that's what completely crazy about it. It's just a way to throw away energy
 & money.

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t the

It's a complete nonstarter from energy & money povs.


NT

Re: Process to Produce Hydrogen from Water Using Sunlight Reaches 16.2% Efficiency, on Its Way to Meeting DOE Target
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If the energy is free where is the cost?

seems like a good use for excess energy  

--  
  When I tried casting out nines I made a hash of it.

Re: Process to Produce Hydrogen from Water Using Sunlight Reaches 16.2% Efficiency, on Its Way to Meeting DOE Target
Jasen Betts wrote:
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There is no such thing as free energy. There is always a
cost associated with turning it into something useful.

For decennia, the gas that came up with oil was thrown
away. It was 'free energy', but turning it into something
useful was too expensive. That's gradually getting better,
at long last. But this was a *concentrated* energy source,
much better than wind and sunlight. And it was wasted
nevertheless! Economy at work.

Scrubbing CO2 from the air and turning it into fuel will
always be a nett waste.

Jeroen Belleman

Re: Process to Produce Hydrogen from Water Using Sunlight Reaches 16.2% Efficiency, on Its Way to Meeting DOE Target
On Thursday, February 21, 2019 at 11:52:19 PM UTC-8, Jeroen Belleman wrote:

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Not if it supports agriculture, fisheries, and the heritage of
natural wildlife.   It's a cost of preserving a livable environment for
our descendants, a long-term investment.

By some estimates, it can reverse the CO2 trend for less than the cost
of a war, and ignoring the problem isn't l ikely to be cheaper than that.

Aztec cities buried in jungle growth prove a civilization can
be felled by overexploiting a resource.


Re: Process to Produce Hydrogen from Water Using Sunlight Reaches 16.2% Efficiency, on Its Way to Meeting DOE Target
whit3rd wrote:
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Then we should *produce* less CO2, not scrubbing it from
the atmosphere after the fact. That would be costly and
only makes things worse. Solar, wind and yes, nuclear
power could help a lot achieving that.

The fact is that there are simply too many people. We're
over-exploiting the whole earth. This is going to break
some day. Not in my lifetime, I think, but that's the
crux of the problem, everybody thinks that. If we don't
rein in ourselves, nature is going to do it for us and it
is going to hurt.

Jeroen Belleman

Re: Process to Produce Hydrogen from Water Using Sunlight Reaches 16.2% Efficiency, on Its Way to Meeting DOE Target
On Friday, February 22, 2019 at 2:52:19 AM UTC-5, Jeroen Belleman wrote:
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ote:
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 400
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e
o one
is
nergy & money.
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Wow!  Such absolute statements are "always" wrong.  We can already scrub CO
2 from the air very economically.  It's called "farming".  There are many p
roperties where they grow trees which suck CO2 from the air to grow turning
 it into lumber.  This lumber is a great by product which is used to build  
homes where the CO2 is sequestered for many, many years.  

Totally positive both economically and environmentally.  

Rick C.

Re: Process to Produce Hydrogen from Water Using Sunlight Reaches 16.2% Efficiency, on Its Way to Meeting DOE Target
On Sunday, February 24, 2019 at 10:13:55 AM UTC-5, snipped-for-privacy@gmail.com  
wrote:
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wrote:
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at 400
y,
the
 No one
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o
a is
 energy & money.
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CO2 from the air very economically.  It's called "farming".  There are many
 properties where they grow trees which suck CO2 from the air to grow turni
ng it into lumber.  This lumber is a great by product which is used to buil
d homes where the CO2 is sequestered for many, many years.  
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Trees are not all that efficient, requiring 10,000 acres to neutralize the  
CO2 emissions of 1MW coal fired electricity production. Then there is the l
ittle problem of leaf litter decay and methane production, which the scient
ific community is just now realizing is extremely significant. Atmospheric  
physicists tend to not know much about things like soil microbiome and meth
ane production, and have all but ignored it until recently.

Re: Process to Produce Hydrogen from Water Using Sunlight Reaches 16.2% Efficiency, on Its Way to Meeting DOE Target
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e CO2 emissions of 1MW coal fired electricity production. Then there is the
 little problem of leaf litter decay and methane production, which the scie
ntific community is just now realizing is extremely significant. Atmospheri
c physicists tend to not know much about things like soil microbiome and me
thane production, and have all but ignored it until recently.

so then the science isn't settled

m


Re: Process to Produce Hydrogen from Water Using Sunlight Reaches 16.2% Efficiency, on Its Way to Meeting DOE Target
On Wednesday, February 27, 2019 at 7:08:15 AM UTC+11, snipped-for-privacy@yahoo.com wro
te:
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the CO2 emissions of 1MW coal fired electricity production. Then there is t
he little problem of leaf litter decay and methane production, which the sc
ientific community is just now realizing is extremely significant. Atmosphe
ric physicists tend to not know much about things like soil microbiome and  
methane production, and have all but ignored it until recently.
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Science is never settled, but more CO2 and more methane in the atmosphere m
eans a warmer planet, and the way soil microbiome affects the observed leve
ls of these greenhouse gases is interesting, but not exactly game-changing.

The Merchants of Doubt will play up any scientific discussion to contribute
 to fear, uncertainty and doubt, but this particular controversy isn't abou
t anything remotely crucial.

--  
Bill Sloman, Sydney

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