Tell Telstra to stop sending you dead trees. - Page 3

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Re: Tell Telstra to stop sending you dead trees.



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Feel free to do that. It is your battery.

Re: Tell Telstra to stop sending you dead trees.


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OK, so you're talking about the effect that deep cycling has. But
blackouts of that extent are rare in any given place, and these
batteries only last a few years even when not being deeply cycled.

Sylvia.

Re: Tell Telstra to stop sending you dead trees.



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ALWAYS".
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telephone
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Perhaps I just use one of the four mobile phones floating around here. :-)
How many does the average household have these days?

Cheers Don...


--
Don McKenzie

Site Map:            http://www.dontronics.com/sitemap
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Re: Tell Telstra to stop sending you dead trees.



:On 7/09/2010 7:04 PM, Ross Herbert wrote:
:
:> :>  Well, the power goes off due to a house fault and you need to call an
:> :>  electrician, what do you do?
:> :
:> :I figure you do the same as when your hard drive crashes and you have no
:> backup. You panic! Then you ask this group how
:> :you can get your data from a dead drive. :-)
:> :
:> :I have always kept a standard 50VDC operated phone plugged in. "I MEAN
ALWAYS".
:> You don't need one plugged in, just
:> :handy, but mine is. That way, when I need to count to a 100+ for some silly
:> reason, and don't need a phone ring
:> :disruption, I drop it off the hook. Saves the batteries on the wireless
phones
:> also.
:>
:> Ah, but when you get on the NBN you won't have that reliable plain old
telephone
:> service anymore when mains power fails - unless you buy your own UPS back-up
:> battery... Just pray that it is not an emergency 000 call you want to make.
:
:Perhaps I just use one of the four mobile phones floating around here. :-)
:How many does the average household have these days?
:
:Cheers Don...

That's fine when you have grown up with this form of technology. But the
increasing complexity of driving a modern mobile phone can be a daunting task
for the elderly who just want simplicity and a reliable communications service.
The elderly may use a mobile infrequently and may even forget where they last
left it. They also don't want to be fussed with the constant requirement to make
sure the battery is always charged. These days mobiles all have graphics
displays and try to outcompete each other by making the buttons smaller so you
can't get your aging fingers on the buttons without errors. And then there is
the complexity of driving the multiple menu functions they come with. Most of
them are not intuitive to use and require many hours of studying the user guide
- and hopefully you can remember it all.

My home has exactly one mobile phone and that is only used rarely by my wife to
contact me when she is out by herself and needs me to pick her up when she is
ready. I don't like mobile phones and I have grown up with this technology.

I don't need GPS or internet or video record and replay on a mobile phone so
when I can buy a mobile which can run for at least 6 months without charging,
and allows me to do nothing other than make and receive calls, then I will get
one.

Re: Tell Telstra to stop sending you dead trees.


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electrician, what do you do?

I dont need to call an electrician, I fix it myself.



Re: Tell Telstra to stop sending you dead trees.




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If it is in the part you can fix.


Re: Tell Telstra to stop sending you dead trees.


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Its always in the part I can fix.

I wired the entire house myself and got an electrician to say he had done it.

He had a bit of a whine about where I had tidily wired inside a 100x100mm RHS
column
which has 8 light switches let into it, I twisted the invidual wires that
belonged together
because I took the TPS shieth off the cables because there wasnt enough room to
get them thru the massive great 150x100x10mm RHS beam across the top.

He only whined about it because no electrician would have
done it like that even tho it was perfectly legal to do it like that.

If I cant do it myself, I would have the phone number on the laptop for someone
who could.



Re: Tell Telstra to stop sending you dead trees.




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Lol, that is how they know. Usually too neat or too many fastners.


Re: Tell Telstra to stop sending you dead trees.


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How much did you have to pay him?

Sylvia.

Re: Tell Telstra to stop sending you dead trees.



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Dunno how much they charge, but it's legal.  The electrician takes on the
workmanship 'guarantee' and puts his stamp on the meter (at least that's
how it was a while ago) as signoff.  

I've done 200A industrial wiring that just needed to be looked at and
signed off by the sparky.  Good systems in place on industrial sites,
nice big padlocks holding the power switch off.

Lotsa people do their own house wiring and only get caught out after the
place burns down and it gets looked at -- oops no insurance cover...

Grant.

Re: Tell Telstra to stop sending you dead trees.


wrote:
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In NSW, at least, it does not appear to be legal

http://www.austlii.edu.au/au/legis/nsw/consol_act/hba1989128/s14.html

unless the sparky is on site and available for consultation while the
work is being done. It appears that a householder could do some of the
work while the electrician he is employing does another part, but it
would not be lawful to do the work first, and then get the electrician
to look at it later.

 From a safety perspective, and as long as the electrician really does
look at the relevant parts of the work, I can't see what difference it
makes, but that's how I read the law.

Sylvia.

Re: Tell Telstra to stop sending you dead trees.


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How does that come about under section 14?

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Re: Tell Telstra to stop sending you dead trees.


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14(2) unless you construe "where" in 14(2)(a) so narrowly that 14(2)(b)
makes little sense.

Sylvia.

Re: Tell Telstra to stop sending you dead trees.


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Employees don't give "directions" to employers.  Employers do give
directions to employees, but that is not the factual context.  I don't see
how subsection 14(2) can apply in this factual situation, and I imagine that
a court would be very reluctant to give section 14 a broader construction
contrary to what the legislation is about.


Re: Tell Telstra to stop sending you dead trees.


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The electrician and the person would not be in an employer/employee
relationship in the normal sense, such that the employer can give
directions to the employee. The relationship in question would be that
of an person contracting to perform a particular service for another. If
the nature of that service includes performing the function of a
supervisor for the purposes of the act, then I can't see any difficulty
with that.

The legislation is generally about ensuring that work is competently
done, mainly in the interests of safety, and it seeks to achieve that
goal by requiring that persons qualified to perform the work are
involved in it. Yet section 14 clearly envisages that some of the work
will be performed by persons who are not qualified to do it completely
on their own. Further, that section envisages two levels of supervision,
depending on whether the person doing the work has a trade certificate
or not. The greatest level of supervision is required when the person
doing the work is essentially a layman, but even there it does not, in
my view, require that the supervisor be close enough to the work to
watch while each and every element is performed. Indeed, such a
requirement would make a nonsense of the sentence in brackets in 14(4)(a).

Sylvia.

Re: Tell Telstra to stop sending you dead trees.


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Subsection 14(2) is not about that provision of services relationship.  It
is about a relationship where the supervisor can and does give directions.
A sparky does not give directions to the person on whose site the sparky is
working, and a construction that pretends that it does run counter to your
own views about this the controlling nature of this legislation.

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That is simply not true regarding subserction 14(2).

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Not a layman, but an apprentice.

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Oh, yes it, does - see paragraph 14(4)(c).

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It's not a layman, but someone like an apprentice, being contemplated by the
provision.  That is, someone who can be given directions, and where the
relationship between the supervisor and the person doing the work is such
that the work is controlled appropriately by the supervisor.

It distorts section 14 for the quite different relationships contemplated to
be recognised.  That might be regarded as unfortunate, but the remedy is to
change the law.  I doubt if the law would be changed to recognise that case.


Re: Tell Telstra to stop sending you dead trees.


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Exactly the same words are used in 14(3)(b) in relation to a person who
holds a trade certificate, but 14(3)(b) notably excludes the requirement
that the supervisor be present. It makes no sense to give the words in
14(3)(b) and 14(4)(c) the construction you propose.

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I don't see how you can assert that a particular relationship is
contemplated where that relationship is not inherently necessary. Nor
that a court would construe the subsection so narrowly, and thus
criminalise conduct that is on its face authorised by the words of the
subsection.

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If the intent were to restrict the section to the situation where the
individual is an apprentice, it would say so. It just says "individual"
(defined in the Interpretation Act to mean a natural person). I see no
problem with the supervisor giving directions to the person he's
contracted to provide a service to. Doctors do it all the time.

Sylvia.



Re: Tell Telstra to stop sending you dead trees.


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Because of the word "directions".  There has to be a particular relationship
for the supervisor to give directions.  It does not apply if the supervisor
is paid by the person being supervised.

The conduct that would be prohibited would be that of a contrived
relationship where the supervisor was a Clayton's supervisor.

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Doctors often tell people what they should do, which is giving advice.
People are always completely free to ignore that advice.  In the context of
section 14, the "directions" being given are not just advice which the
person being directed can ignore.


Re: Tell Telstra to stop sending you dead trees.



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Heavens!  In my early days I could never afford an
electrician and their lazy apprentices.   I soon learned the
basic tricks:

1/  When buying electrical switches, relays etc always pump
the man behind the counter for all the info you need. Ask
for the regulations book on cable sizes and installations.

2/  Go to auctions to buy cabling; it's 1/10th the price.
Remember if the cable is too small it can be doubled up
inside a conduit.  Similarly it can be lengthened if too
short, though this is best done with solder.  A good trick
with cabling of the old yellow colour (verboten) is to hide
it inside conduit.

3/ Lose your fear of switchboards and substations.  A
connection between the neutral (black coloured) and any line
will give 240V, but if you connect to two lines you get
415V!  Brilliant!

  4/ Study the layout of the old decrepit premises to see if
there are unused water, compressed-air and steam lines.
These may be stuffed with cables the inspector will not see.
(Earth 'em though.).   Any boy starting out can to well to
peppercorn-rent a dump and gradually do it up.   If the
girlfriend demurres - dump her!

5/ Again, auctions will have all sorts of goodies, such as
old motors (seem to last forever), fuse boxes and fuses,
relays, contactors.  Remember that components can be too
small, but rarely are they too big.  Old aluminium power
cables are available and can be useful because they're
light.









 



Re: DIY electrical and aircon - was Tell Telstra



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Just for good measure, and in the same vein, it appears from this definition

http://www.austlii.edu.au/au/legis/nsw/consol_reg/hbr2004219/s11.html

and the associated sections of the act, that on a proper construction,
one cannot even change/clean the dust filter in one's airconditiong
system, but must call in a tech to do it.

Now, anywhere but Australia, one would question whether that was really
the intent, but these days, Australians seem to be prohibited from doing
pretty much anything they're not expressly permitted to do, so a
prohibition against doing something to the dust filter seems entirely
plausible. Unlicensed breathing is still legal, for the time being.

Also note the uncertainty regarding whether a typical split system is in
a building.

Sylvia.

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