$1b electric car infrastructure deal

Which pre-supposes cars are only used in cities for short trips. Mine isn't, and outperforms a Toyota Prius for highway use.

Yep, and IF they would only start chrging CTP per *driver* instead of per vehicle, it might become economic to have an electric city car, *and* a diesel highway car.

developing

engines.

with

Actually a 2 litre turbo diesel has similar torque characteristics, and uses less fuel at a constant 100kph. So where are the turbo diesel hybrids I wonder? Or how about the VW 1.4 twin charged engine, plus electric motors. That would surely be interesting!

MrT.

Not when combined with the generator losses, battery losses, and distribution losses they cant! Sure a little bit higher, but certainly not double!

MrT.

You mean JUST the electricity presumably ?

Graham

Opel are making one. They estimate average emissions of 40g CO2 / km overall

Estimated time to market, 4 years.

Graham

happen.

In New Zealand they can (and do) at least generate electricity direct from thermal energy, being located on an active fault line. And hydro is a far better chance there as well, with so much rain and so little population. Not much chance for Australia to increase ours significantly though.

MrT.

from?

Sure, lots of people have been working on them for decades. When they actually come up with something commercially viable, the idea might even become feasible.

MrT.

go up

Yes. There are various consumer options available from a variety of energy providers. Ranges from bogus "old infrastructure" partly green energy for only a few cents extra (used to be no cost when the scheme started out), through to 100% supply guaranteed plans that use new infrastructure which is about 6 cents extra. You can choose your source too - wind, solar, biomass or whatever, or a combination. It is government audited too.

So those that want to be green can simply pay extra for whatever source you want. I picked wind power.

Nope, never had anything to do with it. It's all politics.

No more shortages in Sydney any more, disaster was averted, the Gods smiled and it rained.

Dave.

go up

and for those who want to sign up:

Dave.

Yes, I was of course talking about electrical energy. NZ are currently around 70%, so it won't be hard for them. Google groups seems very slow at posting today, I've already posted extra links.

Dave.

That sounds ideal especially when combined with a home refueller so you don't have to pay fuel tax.

I am very curious about the electricty consumption of that device. AFAIUI, it is taking gaseous NatGas from the street pipe and the pumping it into a gas tank that is mastly liquid, o it has to do a lot of compression of the natgas to get it into the tank.

According to this article , it uses 800 watts.

"Mr.T" wrote in news:4901388b$0$4449$ snipped-for-privacy@news.optusnet.com.au:

There is another possibility. Currently if you look at the load curve of typical cities, the load on the electrical network is alway lowest through the night when the offices and factories are shut. Most electricity utilities provide off peak tarrif for hot water heating. They do this to smooth our the load. The theory is that the generators can work at best efficiency. But even with hot water load, there are still variation across the day. By getting people to recharge their cars during at the normal low load time then it might actually improve generation efficency. Getting generators to generate at the best efficiency might actually be better overall. Less pollution?

Not really. It's a fairly stupid idea in fact.

Wishful thinking.

Graham

Eeyore wrote in news: snipped-for-privacy@hotmail.com:

come

of

to

best

the

Prove me wrong!

Pitifully simple.

They only sell electricity late at night for a discount because they HAVE to keep the baseload stations running regardless.

It's merely a question of getting at least something for what they have no choice but to do.

Make it popular and the price will go up. It's called 'the market'.

Do you even understand the difference between baseload and peaking generation ?

NO free lunch again you see plus pure EV ranges are pitiful. AND the batteries take an AGE to recharge and last at best 5 years.

Graham

Of course. Look at the link titles, and the thread title, we are only talking about electricity here.

Dave.

**Indeed. A modern thermal plant can reach almost 50% efficiency. FAR greater than an IC engine in a car. Look at it this way:

A modern petrol engine can reach around 35% efficiency AT BEST. That means, over a very narrow rev range (though somewhat greater in modern, variable valve timing type engines). My car manages around 7.1 Litres/100km, when operating at around 90kph on a flat road. The car weighs around 1,500kg. It is, for what it is, quite an efficent engine. HOWEVER, under mild acceleration (say, taking 10 seconds to reach 60kph) fuel consumption rises to around 30L/100km from 0-30kph and around 25L/100km form 30-60kph. In city traffic, this occurs far more often than I care to think about. An electric (of hybrid) vehicle has three, huge advantages under these conditions (which is the majority for most city dwellers all over the world):

1) Electic motors develop all their torque from 0 RPM up. 'Fuel' economy is the same, regardless of how hard the car accelerates. 2) Electric motors are approximately the same efficiency, regardless of RPM. IOW: Whilst a petrol engine is, at BEST, 35% efficient, an electric motor remains at (say) 80% efficiency. 3) Regenerative braking can be employed, potentially providing spectacular gains. **Indeed. You should not consider the MAXIMUM efficiency of an IC engine (as used in a car) as representative of TYPICAL efficiency. It doesn't work like that in the real world. A TYPICAL petrol engine would be more like 15% efficient in real-world conditions. For those with a 'lead foot' and extreme bumper-to-bumper' driving (ever been to LA, NYC or Sydney?) efficiencies would be lower still. Electric motors, however, remain at 80-odd %. **No argument from me with stationary engines. Because they operate over a very narrow rev range, their efficiencies can be very impressive. **Sure. How many are fitted to your GM cars?

--
Trevor Wilson
www.rageaudio.com.au

**I'm sure it does. If I were to suggest a car for predominately highway operation, it would not be a Prius. **Indeed.

**It probably does. That merely reflects Toyota's unfortunate choice of IC engine in their Prius. The concept is good, but the execution leaves much to be desired. IMO, a MUCH larger battery, plug-in recharging and a smaller Diesel engine would have been better choices. **Indeed. That VW engine is an impressive device.

--
Trevor Wilson
www.rageaudio.com.au