Use of stepped sine wave UPS with SONY Bracia Flat Panel LCD TV

The difference between Sony and affordable brands like Truetech and Apex is that Sony adds useless features that you don't need like you have to turn the tv off before pulling the plug. And other useless features that actally make the picture and sound worse. But the build quality is the same and the picture quality is actually better on brands like Apex and Protron.

cross posting deleted

There is nothing wrong with the design of the set. The reason for the warning is an overly cautious approach to conserving lamp life on the part of most of the TV vendors that use lamp based systems. The sets contimue to run the fans on the lamps after power is turned off. The fear is that thermal lag in the lamp will cause a temperature increase that wil shorten the lamp life. In fact, no single maufacturer that I have spoken to considers this to be a real problem, nor have any of them actually documented a temperature increase under such conditions. They have all said the same thing...it is safer to let the fans run to cool the lamp, but they doubt that it is a big issue. The larger issue with lamp life is the number of start cycles and the temperature of the lamp during start-up. Every unit that I have serviced uses a thermal cutoff that will not allow the set to strike an arc in the lamp until the temperature is low enough anyway.

The warnings have created a hysteria and a great opportunity for retailers to sell a UPS to every customer who fears premature lamp failure. In fact, there appears to be little benefit to a UPS in this regard. We have been installing lamp based projectors and RPTV for many years in north central FL, which is prone to outages more than most places. We rarely use a UPS on our client's systems and we have not seen any problems with lamp life. WE do use good basic surge suppression on all systems.

With the LCD panel in the OP, I see no reason to use a UPS at all. In fact, a noisy one might actually play havoc with the ZCD in the sony power supply.

Just get a good inexpensive surge suppressor that covers all incoming lines and verify the grounding on your electrical system and sources.

Leonard

-------------------------------------------------------------------------------- I am using the free version of SPAMfighter for private users. It has removed 18240 spam emails to date. Paying users do not have this message in their emails. Try SPAMfighter for free now!

=_NextPart_000_0014_01C7281A.26E04080 Content-Type: text/plain; charset="iso-8859-1" Content-Transfer-Encoding: quoted-printable

It is a good idea to protect cable and phone lines in and out of your = entertainment center, however suppression designs can impact the ability = to decode caller ID on your phone line.

=_NextPart_000_00C3_01C7281B.0431A960 Content-Type: text/plain; charset="iso-8859-1" Content-Transfer-Encoding: quoted-printable

cross posting deleted

This is true, and some poorer suppressiors will limit the ability to use = digital or broadband cable. These issues have hot been a problem with = better quality units and most of the newest, even in the really cheap = stuff. Caller ID is usually not an issue in a HT system, as the only = likely reason for a phone line is for PPV access, where caller ID is not = needed.

Stick with the better brands and it will not be a problem anyway.

I thought you said that brands didn't matter you midget smoker.

This will be the last response to you, if you do not cease such obvious trolling. Brands do matter, but one cannot make assumptions regarding the quality nor serviceablity of display product SOLEY based on brands. If you read my posts for understanding rather than with intent to take information provided and use it out of context, it would have been clear.

As for surge suppressors, within a brand, at least among the better ones, they use essentially the same technology for suppression on a given line, and most of the better brands do not have such fundamental flaws as failing to pass important data on the lines that they protect. You can often generalize such matters on surge suppressors, at least among the more reputable products like Panamax or TrippLite. Even some of the cheaper brands like Belkin or CyberPower don't ususally have such issues. Off-brands or generic products are another matter.

So since you know so much give us some specific information that we can discuss instead of having to correct your misinformation.

Hope you have a better day for the remainder of your Christmas. Your morning was obviously a rough one.

Leonard

-------------------------------------------------------------------------------- I am using the free version of SPAMfighter for private users. It has removed 18248 spam emails to date. Paying users do not have this message in their emails. Try SPAMfighter for free now!

This has been the case for decades with high powered projection devices. Remember the old slide projectors that would run the fan for a few minutes after shutting it off?

In alt.engineering.electrical Richard Crowley wrote: | wrote ... |> Scott Dorsey wrote: |> | **THE-RFI-EMI-GUY** wrote: |> |>Hi; |> |>I have just bought a new Sony Bravia 46S2010 LCD TV. The operations |> |>manual warns against pulling the AC plug without first turning off |> the |> |>TV. - No problem, I would like to run the TV and my Pioneer 300 disc |> |>PD-F1007 Jukebox CD changer* from a UPS |> | |> | Why? Is it absolutely critical that you be able to watch TV during |> a |> | power outage? Is your life so tightly tied up with the Simpsons |> that |> | you cannot spare a few minutes without television? |>

|> If the power goes out, that's the same effect as pulling the plug. |> He might have the TV on when the power goes out. I don't know what |> is screwed up in that TV design that requires this, but something |> certainly is. But I believe he's trying to find a workaround by |> having a UPS that gives up a time window to turn the TV off properly. |>

|> Perhaps the beast is running Windows based software inside in which |> case it could fail to restart properly upon power resumption. Or it |> could be from any number of other bad design decisions. | | I can't believe it is anything more serious than not allowing | the post-operation cooling cycle to complete. If these things | really break when power is removed (for whatever reason), | Sony will have a massive problem on its hands. I just don't | believe that even the modern Sony of today is that stupid.

I've heard of such things happening, not in all cases, but in some cases, particularly if power is lost very shortly after it comes on (think: reclosers). It's probably not a big problem, but it is their problem.

| If you don't warn consumers with strong enough language, | they will connect their big-screen (or projector) to a switched | outlet and it will never get the power-down cooling cycle. | And/or it will go through the setup routine (finding channels, | etc.) every time you turn it on.

Still, IMHO, a bad design. Active cooling should not be needed when there is no active heating. And channel status should be saved in flash memory, and periodically scanned when not in use, as well as channel status noted whcn the user changes around. The full scan should only be needed on initial setup or when the user requests it.

|> I have already noticed that some some DVD players that remember where |> on the DVD you currently are at if you turn the player off with the |> power button fail to do that if you just unplug it. Bad design, but |> given the limitations of flash memory, they certainly don't want to |> be saving the current position every second. With proper power supply |> design, however, the CPU and flash memory can remain powered long |> enough |> when the mains power source goes out to complete a flash save. They |> apparently don't want to design that. | | The average frequency of power interruption seems unlikely | to warrant such extraordinary measures. I doubt it even uses | Flash. Remember that lots of consumer stuff (most especially | VCRs, etc.) just turn off the display and continue to consume | just as much power as when they were "on".

Given that the original statement was:

|> |>I have just bought a new Sony Bravia 46S2010 LCD TV. The operations |> |>manual warns against pulling the AC plug without first turning off

It seems like it is acceptable to pull the plug so long as you have done a turn off operation first. That's not consistent with a device that keeps its data only in volatile RAM. If it's just a RAM issue, then pulling the plug won't care whether a turnoff is done or not. So I suspect it is storing in RAM but with a sufficient power supply to keep the DC level up long enough to complete the flash save, or a lack of ability to detect loss of AC power. Bad design.

In alt.engineering.electrical James Sweet wrote: | snipped-for-privacy@ipal.net wrote: |> In alt.engineering.electrical **THE-RFI-EMI-GUY** wrote: |> |> | I have just bought a new Sony Bravia 46S2010 LCD TV. The operations |> | manual warns against pulling the AC plug without first turning off the |> | TV. - No problem, I would like to run the TV and my Pioneer 300 disc |> | PD-F1007 Jukebox CD changer* from a UPS |> |> IMHO, this is sufficient mis-feature to urge others to not buy such a |> product. Sony needs to re-hire some decent design engineers. |> | | | This has been the case for decades with high powered projection devices. | Remember the old slide projectors that would run the fan for a few | minutes after shutting it off?

So what about their design makes it a problem for cooling to go from active to passive when the heating goes from active to none? It would seem to me that a slower cooling process would be less stressful. But apparently some aspect of it is a problem where temperature presumably will rise somewhere that active cooling would have prevented (e.g. cool parts adjacent to hot parts). Someone didn't consider thermal in the mechanical design.

Or the punters demanded it small and cheap. Lots of equipment requires a shut-down cycle. You're used to it with your computer, your ink-jet printer. If they reckon the projector bulb will last longer with controlled cooling, why should we take an attitude?

Modern projectors (especially "road-warrior", portable type), servo-controlled lamps, etc. etc. would be non-viable in the modern market it they were designed large enough to allow unaided convection cooling. Furthermore the heat is so concentrated far inside that I question whether one could design such equipment for natural cooling regardless of size.

PLEASE turn off the HTML crap.

Suppressors that have so much group delay across the audible passband that they prevent the low-rate caller ID signal from being properly detected have to be pretty awful. If it doesn't meet WECO specs, don't put it on the line.

--scott

It always amazes me that in this day and age we still have people who prefer

Next someone will ask for upper case only, 5 level Baudot, because they are reading this group on a Teletype Model 28.

Well HTML has its place, and I'm not terribly bothered by it but really what in these discussion groups requires anything beyond plain text? It's an information forum, not an art gallery. I can very much respect a desire for clean efficiency, extra fluff just gets in the way.

Besides, a lot of html pages have a lousy font, and also, I like to choose my lettersize if you dont mind. Size and type are often repulsive, and override my own choice.

Usenet has been running quite nicely, thank you, for much longer than you knew computers or the internet existed. And long before the IBM PC, even.

If you don't like Usenet, you can go to one of hundreds or thousands of web-based discussion groups where you can futz up your text however you like. Don't assume that the rest of the world is viewing this Usenet newsgroup as you are. If you act like too much of a boor or a boob, we will just plonk you and you might as well stop posting.

While HTML does not solve all the problems. It does allow for italics, and bold face for emphasis. It allow chemical formulas that look something like what shows up in text books. Instead of H2SO4, I can use small fonts for the digits. Although it is a pain, there would be some formulas useful in this group that will look better in HTML.

Bill

-- Fermez le Bush

This is Usenet. This is not the web. If you want to use web protocols on the Web, that is fine. But you are not on the Web, you are on Usenet.

That would not be apropriate, because that is not a protocol used by Usenet. This is Usenet. Nor would "1981 IBM PC text" which has high bit characters. Usenet is not 8-bit clean. This is Usenet.

--scott

Richard,

I've been around since way before Fidonet linked up to the Internet. My Google / Deja News tracks go back to 1992 and I've been in telecommunications since the mid 1970's. I know all the old war stories as well as the ancient edicts frowning on HTML so that Apple, ATARI, Sinclair, Timex, TTY, IBM, UNIX, and OUIJA boards could be on common ground.

It's the holidays. How about cutting us old farts some slack.