is third transformer hole an earth?

Precisely; it isn't the voltage that's lethal, it's the current. If the current isn't available, the voltage is pretty harmless. High-voltage mains power lines carry a /lot/ of current, whereas high-voltage 'Tazers' don't.

OK, I'm not familiar with arc welding, and I'm surprised that 12V is enough to strike an arc. But your comment that it is the high current that matters for creating a weld, rather supports my contention that current is more dangerous than voltage.

Electron beam welding (which you probaby won't find happening in a garden shed or on a building site) requires many thousand volts, but only a small current (less than 1A).

The only welding I've ever done myself, involved a coke-burning forge and a heavy hammer.

The only 'isolation transformers' I've come across, are earthed - and either have an output restricted to 50V or less (that threshold at which the human body's resistance drops substantially) or provide a good earth connection for the appliance. An isolation transformer /does/ disconnect the connection that exists between the power station and the ground and is carried by the 'live' or 'hot' cable, but that is /not/ the same as the safety 'earth' connection which is meant to provide a relatively safe return path in case exposed metal parts of the appliance accidentally become connected to the power supply.

The 'earth' connection provided by an 'isolation transformer' to the appliances running off it, may be arranged to effectively create a 'short-circuit' on the output windings of the transformer if any current flows through it, and that should trigger the safety cut-off (probably a 'residual current device'). Or the 'earth' connection will pass straight through to the same 'earth' as the mains supply provides.

A double-insulated appliance has no exposed metal parts that can become connected to the power supply, and that's why they are permitted to be used with no 'earth'.

--
-- ^^^^^^^^^^
--  Whiskers 
-- ~~~~~~~~~~
Reply to
Whiskers
Loading thread data ...

Neutral and ground are bonded together at the substation

Hmmmm. Your understanding of the principles of ground isolation by use of a transformer seem very flawed I'm afraid, as also is your knowledge of electricity distribution schemes, and earth / neutral commonality.

Arfa

Reply to
Arfa Daily

"Current kills" is a vast oversimplification, as Arfa has explained.

--
http://www.petersparrots.com    http://www.insanevideoclips.com   
http://www.petersphotos.com

To confirm the discontinuation of stopping the startup, click cancel.
Reply to
Peter Hucker

In that case you shouldn't have any problem grabbing the high voltage terminal of a 2kV microwave oven transformer - its only rated for 500mA.

On the bright side, we wouldn't have to put up with you talking complete and utter bollox.

Reply to
ian field

Whiskers is an idiot from the 24hoursupport.helpdesk newsgroup. Probably got trolled here by the Hucker idiot.

Reply to
Meat Plow

On 11/11/2008 7:47 AM Whiskers spake thus:

He (Dave P.) is right. Once you're about the amount of current sufficient to be lethal (which is measured in milliamps, not amperes), the ampacity of a circuit you're touching--whether 15, 20 or 200 amps--matters not.

No reason to be overly impressed by a 60-amp circuit. No more deadly than a 1-amp circuit.

--
I am a Canadian who was born and raised in The Netherlands. I live on
Planet Earth on a spot of land called Canada. We have noisy neighbours.

- harvested from Usenet
Reply to
David Nebenzahl

David Nebenzahl replies to 13-month old thread:

Google Groups copy of old thread:

formatting link

You thought any participant in that *OVER 1-YEAR OLD* thread was still waiting for a response?

Reply to
VanguardLH

On 12/30/2009 9:42 PM VanguardLH spake thus:

You were reading an *OVER 1-YEAR-OLD* thread? and commenting on it? (And look--I *did* get a response!)

In my defense, I neglected to look at the year; thought it was about a month old.

--
I am a Canadian who was born and raised in The Netherlands. I live on
Planet Earth on a spot of land called Canada. We have noisy neighbours.

- harvested from Usenet
Reply to
David Nebenzahl

That's true if you are just worried about contact shock hazard.

Arc flash/blast is a whole 'nother ball game.

formatting link

http://205.243.100.155/frames/mpg/480VArcFlash1.wmv

http://205.243.100.155/frames/longarc.htm

Reply to
nobody >

ElectronDepot website is not affiliated with any of the manufacturers or service providers discussed here. All logos and trade names are the property of their respective owners.