Is it really that tough out there ? FIRED !

Certainly! Our employees were the highest paid techs in the area, had the best health care, got to drive company trucks home, and could be fired if they didn't do their jobs right. My pay was more than $3 an hour higher than anyone in any of the union shops. As usual, you union maggots can't see reality for your greed.

So it isn't their fault that they are ignorant? Then where do YOU lay the blame? Public schools? their parents? I KNOW! They were unloved as a child and refused to learn anything, just to show up their parents!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!

See? You are making more unfounded ASS-umptions. The company hired an new executive VP who decided to close the in house service department. Both techs were to be transferred to field work, and because of my health I could not climb poles on climbing hooks. I was made a promise that I would NEVER have to climb a pole, and had one of the bucket trucks available for special projects. It was no longer the company I had agreed to work for, so I was man enough to leave. You ass kissing union losers would have walked out on strike, because you can't think for yourself. Also, I wanted to leave the area to be closer to family, all of who lived in Florida.

Just the twisted communist view I expected from a union flunky. The owners were fed up with the union forcing them to keep thieves and useless workers on the payroll, so they sold out. It was the Middletown Armco steel mill, the first computer controlled steel mill in the United States. It was built in the early '60s at a cost of over 1.2 Billion dollars. The 'union' construction company managed to turn a 600 million dollar project into one with an over 100 percent cost overrun. The workers were well paid, because most of the jobs were technical, not grunt work like their original 100 year old mill.

AK Steel, the new owners wanted to close the plant because they could make steel cheaper in Japan, even though the quality was lower. The plant needed some upgrades, but all the money Armco needed to stay competitive was being bled from their bank accounts by the deadwood the union demanded they keep on their payroll.

Middletown WAS a very nice place to live, till the greedy union bastards slit their own throats. The ripple effect on the support industries hurt about 200,000 people.

You're welcome. I studied hard to learn to talk like a union member.

A clear sign of someone who knows their union arguments are shaky and resorts to name calling.

See above.

Show everyone where I EVER made that claim. I was pissed by the early imports of Japanese 'crap-tronics' when it hit our shores, over 40 years ago. No one listened, because the stuff was CHEAP!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!! They could save 30% or more, and have it right now even if it failed within a year.

You are an example of someone who only see what he wants to, and tells lies to make his point. No one should be guaranteed a job for life, or be protected from being fired for stealing, doing shoddy or no work at all.

Unions are greedy and have caused a lot of businesses to close. For example: A corporation owned about 20 paper mills across the US. 19 were making decent profits, and the other was hemorrhaging losses. The workers complained about everything, and never admitted their screw ups. The machinery is too old! (It was newer than most of the other plants.) The raw material is no good. (The other plants used the same materials from the same sources.) It wasn't their fault they were late or absent from the job several times a week, blah, blah, blah.

The president of the company moved to Middletown, Ohio to try to straighten it out. After a few months of their constant whining, they told him they were going union. He showed them that they were already better paid that the union people working in other local paper mills and he was not going to put up with another layer of problems, that if they formed a union, he was closing the plant and splitting their work between two of their other plants in the region.

They told him he was bluffing. A few days later they walked into his office and dropped the union papers on his desk. He picked up his phone and announced the plant was closed, and that people only had five minutes to remove their personal property.

All of a sudden they were making all kinds of promises, offered to tear up the union papers, but the place was closed and padlocked. It cost his company less for additional shipping from the other plants to their customers, than the expense of trying to keep that plant open. No one got transferred to another plant.

Fast forward a decade: Another local paper plant burnt one night, and made the national news. The president that had closed that mill flew into town the next morning to deliver the keys to his closed plant. It opened a few days later, with same machinery. Within a few weeks they were producing more than three times the paper the former workers ever did.

--
Service to my country? Been there, Done that, and I've got my DD214 to
prove it.
Member of DAV #85.

Michael A. Terrell
Central Florida
Reply to
Michael A. Terrell
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If the situation were reversed -- that the union employees were better off -- would you have pumped for a union?

I've long wanted a union for technical writers. Not for better pay, which is good, but to keep out the unqualified people (ie, middle-aged women who have nothing better to do with their time) and establish high standards of technical documentation. I wish there were a tech-writer's union -- I'd probably still be working at Data I/O.

Speaking of steel mills... Do you remember the tax break American steel companies got back in the '70s? Do you remember what they did with it?

Greedy unions exist because greedy businesses exist.

Reply to
William Sommerwerck

Or to put it another way, you couldn't see what was coming for your greed. you preferred better wages in the short term and zero job security - as you later found out to your cost. who's the greedy one here?

(speculative crap snipped)

=2E.dumbfuck, for believing that!

=2E...and losers like you go round blithely union-bashing, spewing out this nonsense because you are too stupid or too indoctrinated by neoliberal doctrines to realise you're being screwed over, wrapping it up in BS about 'being a man'. everyone can see how full of shit you are.

ah, so now you weren't forced out aof a job by broken management promises, but you WANTED to leave. this is hilarious!

ah, so its 'reds under the bed' time now. this is great, how many more cold war clich=E9s are you going to come out with?

who's to say who is 'dead wood' and who isn't ? sounds like an excuse to increase profits at the cost of the workers to me.

ultimately this seems to come down not so much to an argument about industrial relations, but to an argument about basic view of people. You feel they're 'thieves', 'lazy', 'dead wood', 'stooges', 'maggots', a 'herd'...I pity people with a dismal worldview like you. You have proven yourself incapable of educated and balanced argument; someone comes along with a more open view of people and their rights, then you immediately start getting personal and vulgar - there's barely a single paragraph you wrote which didn't contain some abuse and bullshit.

(more tired union-bashing snipped)

your incessant disregard for the rights of woriking people NOT to be screwed over by employers is evidence enough. we're going round in circles here so let's just agree to disagree...

-B

Reply to
b

Actually, the idea of unions being "communist" organizations dates back long before the Cold War. Rent "How Green Was My Valley". The father -- who has an important job in the coal mine -- is very much against unions because they're "communist".

Reply to
William Sommerwerck

On Feb 11, 12:28 am, "William Sommerwerck"

thanks William, will try and find a copy!

-B

Reply to
b

I have an old dog eared hard back How Green Was My Valley book here. I never haved worked anywhere that was union, and I wouldn't either.Those unions always wind up shooting themselves in the foot.

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Reply to
cuhulin

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Oh yeah, these guys are real pillars of the community. From :

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Delvescovo, reputed mob associate Nicholas Calvo and union official=20 Michael King allegedly shook down a subcontractor identified in the=20 indictment only as "John Doe No. 4." The informant is Joseph Vollaro,=20 the owner of Andrews Trucking and other companies, according to a=20 federal law enforcement official who spoke on condition of anonymity=20 because the individual was not named in the documents.

Reply to
James Beck

Yeah, I'll bet that is a common thing......... NOT, and what you BELIEVE and what really happened might just be 2 different things.

Jim

Reply to
James Beck

You don't understand the term? Just to top it off, it appears that the union thugs in NYC have been shaking down construction companies for illegal kick backs. Yep, real moral giants there.

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Jim

Reply to
James Beck

And then........................................

Reply to
James Beck

No I would have moved to another field. That job was well below my skill set, but the pay was acceptable. I worked second shift by myself, set my own schedule, and had free cable TV while at work. If there was something I wanted to watch, that was when i took my lunch break.

A professional association would be better than a union, but you still run into management not understanding the importance of good documentation, or even worse, the bean counters who won't spend the money.

When was this? I spent part of the '70s in the US Army.

--
Service to my country? Been there, Done that, and I've got my DD214 to
prove it.
Member of DAV #85.

Michael A. Terrell
Central Florida
Reply to
Michael A. Terrell

I understand the term, but obviously you don't or you would be able to specify the item the union threatened to "tell about."

So what were the construction companies doing that opened them up to being "blackmailed" (your term, not mine)? Sounds like two rotten organizations.

Reply to
Don Bowey

And then what? You are showing clear signs of being an ass.

Reply to
Don Bowey

And a union would have guaranteed me a job forever? How IS the buggy whip manufacturing business these days?

No, but you are for thinking that you know all the details. I ran the corporate repair facility, I was not part of the field crew. At first it was interesting work. I was repairing equipment that the manufacturer couldn't, designed system extensions and CATV headends.

Now tell us: If you were hired as a welder would YOU expect to be cleaning toilets?

i earned the right to union bash, after the death threats I got from co workers who were union. I was working management, and was told I would never make it home from work if I crossed their picket line.

A closed mind is a terrible thing. A union lobotomized mind is even worse. I get bored after a number of years on the same job and I had worked there over four years. That, with a death in the immediate family and several other things, there just wasn't any reason to stay. I moved, and got the first job I applied for. People with valuable skills can do that.

BTW: You still haven't told the newsgroup if you have any skills other than the inability to write clearly.

If there are any 'reds under the bed', they aren't here. Union propaganda is still made of recycled, overpriced lies. Unions were great, at one time. Then the criminals and idiots took over.

The people who were always away from their position? How about the guy they videotaped on second shit slipping into a storeroom? He would sleep four hours, get up and go to lunch, then go back for four more hours. According to the union, it wasn't the union member's fault that the company couldn't find him. or that he was being paid for work he didn't do.

You are full of shit, as usual. Unions are a great thing for bottom feeders, and those who can't think for themselves. My dad had to join a union to work in a corrugated paper plant. He was happier that he could quit the union than for the pay increase when he made foreman. he was always complaining about the dead wood he had to work with, because the union wouldn't let the company fire them. One was so bad that they had to show him how to do his job every Monday. He also complained about the losers demanding he reduce the quality of his work, to their level.

--
Service to my country? Been there, Done that, and I've got my DD214 to
prove it.
Member of DAV #85.

Michael A. Terrell
Central Florida
Reply to
Michael A. Terrell

It was during the Carter administration. The steel industry got one-time tax breaks, so it could upgrade its facilities to remain competitive. Instead, the steel companies used the money to buy other companies that were doing well, so they could give their stockholders a better return.

In other words, the steel companies viewed themselves as being in business to make profits for their stockholders, rather than to manufacture and sell steel.

Reply to
William Sommerwerck

you

Wow, you sure told me. That still doesn't answer the question. And then.........

Jim

Reply to
James Beck

Yeah, wanting to do business in the city, that sure sounds bad to me. So, those great moral union/mob boys needed to take a little of the profit, off the books, to straighten things out for the workers. You are such a union stooge it isn't even funny.

Jim

Reply to
James Beck

No, they bought companies that had already invested in better technology, rather than doing upgrades to older plants. The idea was to make the company profitable and able to financially maneuver faster. It worked, the US steel industry is a $75 billion dollar a year industry and those companies are still employing people. If you don't like how they manage their money start your own steel company and do it better. THAT is the American way, whining isn't.

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Jim

Reply to
James Beck

And then, WHAT? Don't be so obtuse.

Reply to
Don Bowey

You still can't answer my specific questions about YOUR posts, so maybe you should just quit.

You allude to many things and don't have a whit of facts to support them.

You don't even appear to know the meaning of blackmail.

Reply to
Don Bowey

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