Internal wiring of USA v UK mains plug

Jun 27, 2007 303 Replies

Only foil coil immersion types. Our "kettles" over here have enclosed heating elements under the kettle, so it would lose a bunch.

Immersion heating elements are about as efficient as one can get.

We used to place a few coiled rubber bands between two spoons, and hook 'em up, and that would boil water pretty quick too.

Gives "Direct Current" a new meaning.

Most "plastics" that can handle those temperatures also conduct heat pretty well.

Stick a lid on it. Once the water is boiling, one can reduce heat and retain boil, another good reason for gas.

I love finding uses for wafting, otherwise wasted heat.

A smaller "vat" has less exposed surface area, and is quite valid to consider as a spoiler to your claim. It all comes down to using the right heated pot for any given volume considered.

Why do you think solder pots are short and squat, and not some eight or ten inch diameter device? It isn't just the handling issues. It has a lot to do with conservation.

When I put water on to boil, I start with *very* low heat, and most of it hits the mark, and that which wafts, heats those same sides. The flame barely leaves the burner head, and the gas meter barely moves, and I boil water much better with a long slow process than a "stick a torch to it and GO" method, so not much "spills" up the sides.

I am very lean on consumption. My carbon footprint barely exists at all. Been riding a bike to and from work for the last twelve years.

Gas is definitely the best, most controlled application of heat, therefore is the best way to cook.

I wish microwave ovens were wattage controlled, instead of duty cycle controlled. I would have many more uses for it then. Still, it is my second choice. Electric burner stoves, and cooking accessories are the most wasteful use of juice there is. The only proper electric stove would have skillets, pots, and pans with integrated elements in them.

Otherwise there is a lot of loss with electrics as well. I'll take gas any day.

Hi I'm thinking of heat pump system at my home. How big is your house, what is the heat demand and size of the heat pump and who make them, was is NIBE. It seem you have passive cooling and active heating arrangement. This is very good arrangement because it much cheaper to cool house via ground source. Was is possible to email me the design plan of the system and the calculation? Thanks Richard Payne.

Because the heating system now driven by ground source heat pump system, which take 3-4 time less power for same amount of heat. This is a key feature and will reduce electric bill by 3-4 time, cheaper than gas heater. You no longer requires 25A and hence reduces to 20A as orginal circuit design limits may allows. You may risk damage to cable and connection if you keep 25A fuse.

Unfortunately in the UK, electricity costs ~ 3 times more than electricity per kWh so the efficiency of heat pumps saves you no money on your heating bill here if you have gas available.

Graham

So where is it lost to? BTW I've never seen a kettle where the element isn't in the water.

Eh? Most plastics are poor conductors of heat.

If you're there to reduce the heat, why not simply use the boiling water?

Never seen a 'jug' kettle? Not much use with gas, though.

Good grief. Most just want that cup of tea *now*.

You don't cook with a kettle. Well most don't.

Integrated elements would have to be covered at all times. The only other appliance where this makes sense is a deep fat frier.

In the UK most use gas for the hob and electricity for the oven. But pretty well all use an electric kettle for boiling water. The reason being we've always had a 3 kW kitchen electrical socket.

*I'm really easy to get along with once people learn to worship me Dave Plowman dave@davenoise.co.uk London SW To e-mail, change noise into sound.

Actually I believe that induction cooking is better, more easily controlled and safer than gas.

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The U.S. Department of Energy has established that the typical efficiency of induction cooktops is 84%, while that of gas cooktops is 40% (more exactly, 39.9%)--figures right in line with the range of claims made for each, and thus quite believable.

Natural gas is the standard heating fuel in most part of the US. Unfortunately the cost has more than tripled in the last decade or so, making heat pumps an attractive alternative. I installed an air source heat pump in my house a few years ago and saw significant savings.

Are the "lifetime" savings significant? Of course this all depends on the local costs of both electricity and gas. Both vary widely across the country (some places even resistive heat is cheaper than gas).

Keith

Well I wanted air con anyway so given the difference in cost between AC and a heat pump it's already paid for itself and then some, but then I did use scratch & dent surplus equipment and installed it myself so it didn't really cost very much to do. Electricity is about $0.08/kwh and gas is about $1.30/Therm.

I've been told that heat pumps have a fairly short life, at least compared to furnaces/boilers. My boiler is 21YO and going strong. Of course, air-source heat pumps are out here and ground source is still way too expensive.

Our electricity is $.13/kWh, and gas somewhere around $1.40/therm. We're considering moving soon, and air-source heat pumps seem to be all the rage where we're considering (hence my interest). Of course electricity is about $.06/kWh there, with far milder winters too.

Keith

Riscy wrote in news: snipped-for-privacy@n2g2000hse.googlegroups.com:

If the 25A fuse was no risk during the time when it was needed, then it should be no risk when it is unnecessary.

I understand that if the heat pump requires less current, then you can save money, but changing the fuses from 25 A to 20 A will make little or no difference, by itself, in the bill (unless the 25 a fuse has high internal resistance. And I would expect a 25 A fuse to have LOWER internal resistance than a 20 A fuse, so I don't think the fuse makes the difference.

bz 73 de N5BZ k please pardon my infinite ignorance, the set-of-things-I-do-not-know is an infinite set. bz+ser@ch100-5.chem.lsu.edu remove ch100-5 to avoid spam trap

I have no idea how long a boiler lasts, but heat pumps can and do last 20 or more years if it's a decent system properly installed, I know of at least one old GE unit from the mid 70s which is still trucking along. Thousands of them are needlessly replaced due to small issues that could be easily fixed, but HVAC contractors are always eager to sell a new system and will come up with every excuse they can to do so.

Installing some load management to save 150 a year might be worth it, perhaps an opening for a product there.

NT

yes they do. There isnt anywhere else for it to go.

no, they radiate less total energy because they take 1/3 the time and radiated power is no different to a 1kW unit, since that depends entirely on water temp and kettle shape & finish.

NT

Yes, but its not as bad as it sounds. Bills are made up of charge per kWh and a fixed standing charge for the supply. The 44c/kWh rate only occurs where people choose a no standing charge deal, where the first so many units are hiked in price to add the standing charge. Its just a marketing game.

NT

Read what I said again. Sure, most plastics are poor conductors of heat, however, most, if not all plastics with high temperature capacity are much better conductors of heat than their intolerant relatives.

In other words, if it is a high temp tolerant plastic, it conducts heat far better than any plastic you might be thinking of. Kinda goes with the territory.

Now silicone, SOFT plastic types do insulate thermally. That is different, and there are not a large number of them in that category. We are talking about solid, construction capable type materials here. The plastic that would be used on a vat of boiling water as a major element of its containment would likely be a fair conductor of heat.

The reason low tolerance plastic types have such a low tolerance is because of their lack of thermal conduction. Apply heat to the surface, and it stays there. This is a bad thing when said heat can make said surface reach a melting temperature fairly fast.

A lot of dishes require a maintained boil point... Like pasta, for example.

So things like lids allow continued boiling even after heat reduction. No lid... no boil... Unless you bring the heat back up. Which is what the lid id good for.

I am willing to extend my "now" period in order to conserve a few dollars at the end of the month when the gas bill arrives.

There are plenty of load limiters on the Swedish market and have been at least since the 70:s. They work by temporarily cutting out electric radiators or boilers. The only thing I can now without too much inconveniance cut out during an overload is the additional heater element in the heatpump, which kicks in if the output of the heatpump is not enough during really cold weather. In a situation like this we are highly unlikely to run the washer, dryer and stove on full blast anyway.

Some heatpumps have built in limiters that will cut out the extra heater on overload.

I might give weaker fuses a try over the winter anyway. I can install the weaker 20A fuses myself, but to get the lower rate I have to tell the electrical company to change fuse plugs so that I can no longer use the stronger 25A fuses, and if I do that now, I can not immediatebly change back in the winter if needed.

Thomas

It look VERY inefficient.

It also REQUIRES iron cookware.

Two killers right there.

Tally:

Total Suckage.

In fact... it sucks so bad that it sucks at sucking.

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