WTF patents

That's a hard one. My band has the same problem. There is obviously no perfect technology out there; the choice seems to be either "heavily rely on people being honest", or "use a DRM system that limits where, when, and how people can listen." Sometimes I think we should just give the music away for free and sell T-shirts.

Check.

I'm amused that he's "this guy" to you. Don's books and articles in the

1970s and on were part of what got me into electronics in the first place, and I still refer to them from time to time. I think there are probably plenty of people on this forum who are similar.

Because you cannot copyright an idea. if you wrote it down on paper and published it then it would have copyright, or indeed if you wrote a song about it ;-)

I sympathize with your views on copyright. The good thing about technology is that it let's lot's of people create and publish music who 20 or 30 years ago would not have been able to. The bad thing is it makes it easy for regular folks to exploit (copy) it.

I am struggling with this right now - my neighbour has three albums under his belt and we are trying to set up a web page to sell them and allow paid downloads of individual songs.

Ian

A strange series of articles. I am not convinced this guy knows what he is talking about. Some of his facts are OK but some are just plain wrong. I would agree with the 12 to 40 million sales being necessary for making patents worthwhile. My patents applied to products that individually achieved annual sales of this order.

Ian

I think that was a complement. Thanks, bro!

--
 Thanks,
    - Win

My neighbour is really a songwriter so what he really wants is for known artists to record his songs. That way he makes good money and the protection is someone else's problem. So in some senses, the more people hear his songs the better because there's then a better chance of the right people hearing them. So it is partly a marketing exercise. On balance I think we will not use any form of protection. We will allow excerpts to be downloaded for free, a selection of whole songs for a fee per song, and the only way to get the lot will be to buy a CD. If someone rips the CD then if they sell/give away a lot of them it may be worth it.

Ian

I assume he is in the US. I am in the UK so what got me into electronics were the likes of Scroggie and F.G Rayer writing in Wireless World in the

60s. No internet to broaden our horizons in those days.

Ian

Worked for Star Wars movies, I remember reading in the pre internet days

martin

Imagine Baxendell, Blumlein on SED, Win Hill, would come second (just)

martin

Gosh, Walter, I may have meet a relatively kindred spirit here. How do you feel about natural person only ownership of patents vs mega-corporation only ownership of patents?

--
JosephKK

I think it's a false dichotomy. Corporations are made of and by people, all acting in their own self-interest, though usually irrationally and with bad information. Corporate nature is an emergent property of human nature.

My gripe is with patents that block ordinary people from doing their individual work. If a patent is broad enough or obvious enough that people keep inadvertently running into it while inventing on their own, then to me that patent is doing more harm than good: society didn't benefit from it being "disclosed."

When individuals or corporations accumulate abusive patents like that, as a way of controlling the playing field, I think that's wrong. Corporations are of course more likely than individuals to be able to accumulate enough patents, and hire enough lawyers, to be a problem. But it needn't be megacorporations; there are plenty of small corporations that do nothing but hold patents and look around for people to sue.

So I guess if I had to sum up my opinion it would be that the patent system should be a marketplace where I can go to discover and license ideas that I would have been unlikely to come up with on my own, rather than a minefield of potential lawsuits that explode whenever someone else happened to have the same ordinary idea as me.

[snip]

"obvious" is a standard test for killing a patent.

...Jim Thompson

--
|  James E.Thompson, P.E.                           |    mens     |
|  Analog Innovations, Inc.                         |     et      |
|  Analog/Mixed-Signal ASIC\'s and Discrete Systems  |    manus    |
|  Phoenix, Arizona            Voice:(480)460-2350  |             |
|  E-mail Address at Website     Fax:(480)460-2142  |  Brass Rat  |
|       http://www.analog-innovations.com           |    1962     |
             
     It\'s what you learn, after you know it all, that counts.

alas, although we all know that it would appear the USPTO (and all the others I've ever used) dont.

I did some work with flywheels a few years back. these guys had patented (circa 1996) the boost converter. I kid you not. and a buddy of mine patented ohms law here in NZ. and got royalties from GE....

Cheers Terry

[snip]

The "obvious" argument is used in the challenge. USPTO will patent just about anything presented to them.

...Jim Thompson

--
|  James E.Thompson, P.E.                           |    mens     |
|  Analog Innovations, Inc.                         |     et      |
|  Analog/Mixed-Signal ASIC\'s and Discrete Systems  |    manus    |
|  Phoenix, Arizona            Voice:(480)460-2350  |             |
|  E-mail Address at Website     Fax:(480)460-2142  |  Brass Rat  |
|       http://www.analog-innovations.com           |    1962     |
             
     It\'s what you learn, after you know it all, that counts.

Hi Jim,

yeah, the real question is: how much does it cost to mount such a defence. I have deliberately infringed several "junk" patents, for several reasons:

1) clearly rubbish - blindingly obvious or a plethora of prior art 2) low odds of anyone ever noticing - who's gonna dismember a $250,000 widget to examine a $5 circuit?

wrt the flywheel, their patent covers:

- rectifying the ac output of a variable speed flywheel to get a variable amplitude DC supply

- using a boost converter to generate a stabilised 400V supply

and thats about it. I had visions of turning up in court with, say, 50 textbooks ranging from the 1950s to present, all of which describe the boost converter in detail, and uttering the single phrase "QED"

I suspect it wouldnt be quite that simple.

Cheers Terry

Actually it is. Textbooks predating the patent application are instant patent death. Used that several times now to end litigation on the spot.

I protect myself with a closed mouth.

Don't say to anyone, "Patentable".

Don't divulge any cutesy tricks I've used, even to the customer.

Years later, someone tries to patent... just point out ancient hardware with the technique. Again, instant patent death.

I just cleaned up my office... running out of file cabinet space. Moved four 4-drawer file cabinets worth of design schematics to an off-site storage facility! And I figure I need to buy two more file cabinets to get the rest of the stuff out of boxes!

...Jim Thompson

--
|  James E.Thompson, P.E.                           |    mens     |
|  Analog Innovations, Inc.                         |     et      |
|  Analog/Mixed-Signal ASIC\'s and Discrete Systems  |    manus    |
|  Phoenix, Arizona            Voice:(480)460-2350  |             |
|  E-mail Address at Website     Fax:(480)460-2142  |  Brass Rat  |
|       http://www.analog-innovations.com           |    1962     |
             
     It\'s what you learn, after you know it all, that counts.

me

glad to hear it. its one of the reasons I have so many textbooks. Apparently I get a free lobotomy when I hit the thousand mark, which is rapidly approaching. On the bright side, this will allow me to enjoy TV

- who knows, I might even think Ray Romano is funny (shouldnt the show be called "everybody loves to stab Raymond in the head with a fork"?)

I have run into the opposite problem, repeatedly - VCs demanding to patent everything.

dont you have to give them the relevant schematics?

about that book you plan on writing....

Cheers Terry

Don't forget the Golden Rule: The guy that has the gold makes the rules.

Thanks, Rich

--
"We have met the enemy and he is us." - Pogo Possum