Re: Evil Designers Guide to Copying Patents

Mar 21, 2007 10 Replies


I'm going to tick off some patent owners. :P


>
> 1) Patent owners are not god and see everything everywhere.
> Play the odds...There's a good chance of never being discovered.

There is also a good chance of losing your company. Play this game at your own risk.


2) Some copied tech can be epoxy encapsulated. Is a patent owner
> going to spend days picking away at epoxy to see if it's a copy?
> Maybe filing off chip numbers will help.

If you're important enough of a competitor no number of files will help.


3) Deny copying the patent.. I didn't make that! :)
> Be a non-existent, unregistered, unlicensed company.

Good marketing plan.


4) Find out if the patent owner is poor.. Most likely the person is
> too broke for a patent legal battle.

As he sells out to GM...


5) Avoid mass production of the copied patent.

Read: avoid making money.


6) Have the copied patent made overseas. Have it disguised as another
> product when it's imported.

Smuggling is a felony.


7) Maybe improve or degrade the patent so that's it's different.

Improvements may still violate the underlying patent.


8) Don't release schematics. Maybe have fake schematics too.

Useless. No one who is really interested, other than perhaps your customer for repair, is going to look at the schematic anyhow.


9) If you're not making much money on the copied patent.. You think
> you'll get sued over a few hundred dollars of profit?

You can get sued for far more than your profit.


10) Go ahead copy away..When discovered, perhaps make a deal with the
> patent owner for licensing and paying back royalties.. There might be
> enough profit to go around.
> If the patent owner is greedy, then layoff everybody, liquidate the
> company and start all over again by copying somebody else's patent.

...if you think a corporate shield will protect you.


11) Have you heard of any stories of people going to jail for patent
> infringement?

Haven't heard of it, but Fraud and smuggling are in a different kettle.


12) Get ready to mass produce the patent just before the patent
> expires.

Nothing illegal or immoral here. Twenty years is a long time to wait to go to market though.

Keith

DofBC:It could be a case of risk vs no company at all..

DofBC: Is there such a thing as a search warrant to check for copied tech?

DofBC: If a customer requests a few (underground) units and there 's thousands of dollars of profit. It might be tempting. There would be no marketing.

DofBC: My point is that one can get away with making a few copies.. Not flood Walmart.

DofBC: What smuggling?? :)....It's an voice activated toy robot...it just so happens the circuit board can be "recycled" as a home speech activated lamp controller. :)

DofBC: True...but serves to reduce risk..

DofBC: Schematics just make it easier to check for patent infringement.

DofBC: How is this just? Is it something goofy like charging 1.4 million in patent emotional damage ??

DofBC: I'll get that confirmed someday..

D from BC

An old friend of mine used to work as an engineer in the IP protection department (or something like it, staffed mostly with lawyers) for a big name company in Singapore. I don't remember which company it was, probably Texas Instruments or Intel. Anyway, from what he told me, his job is to reverse engineer competitor's products to find out if they violated any of his employer's IP.

There are a number of reverse engineering firms in Taiwan who'll do a

3D scan of a product for you by slowly shaving the product and taking a picture of the cross section. This is how people reverse engineer electronic bits in epoxied packages. The company my friend worked for was big enough that they did this in-house. But even smaller companies can do this by outsourcing to Taiwan.

Reverse engineering is almost never done by looking at schematics. For one thing, the most important part is usually a black box in the form of an ASIC. Reverse engineering is hard work. But like I mentioned above, there are companies out there that does it for a living. If you suspect that your competitor is stealing your IP you can simply send that product to Taiwan to have it broken down and analysed.

My very limited (no pun intended) understanding of corporate limited liability is that the veil is pierced if they can show that the intent of setting it up was to defraud or primarily for some other illegal purpose. But if your activities merely include some illegal activity but it cannot be shown that was why you chose to incorporate, it isn't pierced.

Ah. I should have looked. Here's a wiki page on it:

formatting link

Jon

Wow...this is shocking news to me..I didn't imagine.. It's like cool documentary material.. I really would like to see a Taiwan reverse engineering lab.. What a job... There's gotta be some sort of slang for a such a Rev Eng Taiwan house. Hack and Crack Shack? Chop Shop?

[snip]

There are several companies in the US and Canada that will produce a schematic from an ASIC.

...Jim Thompson

| James E.Thompson, P.E. | mens | | Analog Innovations, Inc. | et | | Analog/Mixed-Signal ASIC's and Discrete Systems | manus | | Phoenix, Arizona Voice:(480)460-2350 | | | E-mail Address at Website Fax:(480)460-2142 | Brass Rat | | http://www.analog-innovations.com | 1962 | America: Land of the Free, Because of the Brave

I've seen some neat IP used to hide/disguise elements in circuits to slow down reverse engineering.

Keith

I have a interest in slowing down or eliminating reverse engineering.. Making something copy proof would dodge the costly patent process. Likewise, making electronics copy proof can also hide ripped patents.

I'm sure there's some engineers out there that have basement labs. Occasionally they get visited by "Mr. Green" that drops off an envelope of cash and new gizmo to copy. :) D from BC

Being new at usenet discussions, I was called a "top poster" one time. I was thinking.....Cool...I'm at the top!! I got the high score..Somehow there's a score system on here. :) Or maybe I'm posting too much and there's a courteous limit.. I quick check on wiki fixed that.. D from BC

AFAIK only "discovery" , after you file suit.

Bye. Jasen

maybe epoxy with diamonds? it'd be like waving a red flag...

Bye. Jasen

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