Wrong. Dividends are always seen as income, just as capital gains are always seen as income. But capital gains and dividends are taxes at a lower rate than wages.
I am smart ( or at least smarter than you ) so my opinion is reliable.
Dan
It was a comment about the ACA and how much my premium has went up with the changes inflicted. Mikek
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And how does it "protect" them? Does it change your RISK of getting sick? Does the mere act of purchasing health insurance make you healthier? Less LIKELY to need health care?
Or, does it shift your EXPOSURE to that risk -- by offloading it onto some other payer (i.e., the insurance company)?
Where does the insurance company come up with the money to pay YOUR $300,000 bill (if you ever incur the need for that sort of care)? Do they convince the providers to forgive ALL of those fees?
In which case, does the provider just stop paying its employees for the services they've provided?
There's no free lunch. If you incur $300,000 of care, SOMEONE is paying that $300,000 -- if YOU aren't (because you "protected yourself")
I.e., someone who *didn't* incur healthcare costs that met or exceeded what he paid *to* the insurer ("insurance industry") is effectively subsidizing your care. They are assuming a part of your risk exposure.
Of course, if you are UNLUCKY enough to NOT need that care, then YOU will subsidize someone else's care!
So, if everyone has insurance, then no one gets a "deal".
Or, the folks who *don't* get a deal end up not paying their bills. Do you think the provider just operates at a loss -- indefinitely?
YOU ALWAYS PAY FOR OTHER PEOPLE WHO ARE SICK. Regardless of whether or not they have insurance. I.e., if you want to be extremely selfish (like ME), you would want everyone to be as healthy as possible. If the total number of dollars expended on healthcare goes down, then it only stands to reason that the average money expended per person also goes down. Regardless of whether they are paying in cash or via an insurer.
If there are 3 "sickies" in the ER ahead of you (because they are MUCH sicker than you), aren't you incurring a cost in terms of inconvenience? Being made to wait while in pain, discomfort or, potentially, in a life-threatened state? And, all 3 of them may be indigent -- not paying a dime for their care, directly.
My health insurance costs *tripled* from my first year with an individual policy (decades ago) to the second. I'd not hit any magical age. Nor filed any claims -- nor even visited a provider!
Having little/no experience with HEALTH insurance, I thought of it in the context of CAR insurance: what have *I* done to merit these huge increases??
My insurance agent said "too many other sick people so the cost of insuring the *group* of you has gone up; this is your share of that pie..."
Cars are safer. But, the costs of repairing cars that are in accidents has increased -- particularly because they ARE safer and more "sacrificial". So, my car insurance cost goes up even though I've not had ANY accidents, citations, etc. I end up paying for all the folks who get into fender-benders.
As long as I can remember or since the kids were born 23 years ago, I don't ever recall hitting my deductible. So the insurance company has not paid a claim. So I have been subsidizing others care, but that's what insurance does. I have a $10k deductible and hope I never hit it. Hit about $4,500 one year when my son had his wisdom teeth pulled.
I don't know, I do think that if no one had insurance healthcare would be much cheaper, but we would also not have as much high tech equipment in use. I'm not sure of your point, I just know that I get a bill and the insurance company cuts in in half and more, I had a test that was $32 and the insurance company allowed $3.32. I doubt the tester wants to continue that test.
Golly, a throw away line sure got a lot of heckles up.
And they probably haven't showered for days!! Those dirty indigents.
Mikek :-)
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I guess you lost out by paying for insurance. Too bad you have good health. Better luck next year.
It's a well known fact that insurance premiums go up with age. That's even allowed in the ACA.
Gotten older and driving a model that has gotten more expensive to repair. Too bad you can't trade it in for a newer model that can be insured for less.
Of course, that is the very definition of insurance. You pool the costs of everyone in the group.
No, you pay for the insurance that would cover your costs if *you* get into a fender bender. God! How stupid would it be to pay for other's accidents out of the goodness of your heart...
-- Rick C
You clearly don't understand insurance. *You* are paying to be covered should you need medical care. You may not have been able to take advantage of that coverage, but that's a good thing, no? MUCH better than needing medical care and NOT having insurance.
Also, they get you lower rates than if you paid directly. MUCH LOWER.
A friend bought dental insurance at the suggestion of the dentist's office. It isn't a lot and doesn't pay for much if anything. But the dentist charges *much* lower rates, about half.
You don't know how cheap some tests are. Remember they are done in a fast paced, laboratory production line. This isn't some guy holding a test tube over a Bunsen burner. They use fancy equipment because tests largely become automated and so very inexpensive.
Insurance payments are *negotiated*. If they are too low to pay for the test, the provider won't work with that insurance company.
-- Rick C
In Australia and the UK capital gains aren't classified as "income" and consequently not subject to income tax but, taxed separately as "capital gains". Dividends are definitely income.
We speak English. You speak American.
That is your - deluded - opinion.
-- Bill Sloman, Sydney
You're lucky. I've been blowing away my deductible for several years now. Been blowing away the maximum, too, but my maximum is an order of magnitude less than your deductible. Our "deductible" isn't much of a deductible, either, because I only pay the co-pay even before I've met the deductible. Like I said, it doesn't matter much because I'll be paying the max again this year.
It's a couple of minutes in a machine. They probably do a few thousand an hour.
But, you don't honestly think they put that money in a special account: "To be used for Mike's *future* claims", do you? Instead, it went to pay for someone else's claims -- because they "only" paid $11K that year and needed $150K of care!
As I said elsewhere, I'd gladly keep paying "high rates" *if* it acted to protect me from NEEDING care (sadly, it can't). So, the only control I have over what gets paid out is by adjusting my lifestyle to avoid things that could lead to expensive care (avoid smoking, control weight, exercise, etc.), encourage others to do likewise (to reduce the amount that I -- and everyone else lumped in the same group with me -- get charged to cover THEIR care) and *hope* for the best.
I see what toll (financial, psychological, emotional) health issues have taken on friends and colleagues -- often consequential to their personal choices but also often "bad luck"/genes. I'd much prefer to stay as healthy as I *can* -- and wonder why others don't think likewise (but, hey, its their choice; I'd rather pay my "share" of their healthcare than live with their debilitating conditions, etc.)
Exactly. I designed a product 30+ years ago that cost $300 (DM+DL). It was *priced* at $6,000 (!). And, every one was GIVEN AWAY (think: toilet paper dispenser... want to encourage folks to think they are getting a real BARGAIN when you offer them a $6,000 piece of kit FOR FREE! :> )
No, tests cost *nothing* to perform. E.g., virtually all of the "cost" of a CBC is in the labor to collect the blood sample. The actual test is completely automated. If the MD had wanted *just* a platelet count, he'd still order the CBC and disregard the other numbers (of course, he wouldn't IGNORE them but he'd never consider ordering JUST a "platelet count")
[One of the functions the insurance company provides is knowing HOW these services are actually performed/delivered. E.g., if a provider/lab tried to bill for:- white blood cell count
- red blood cell count
- hematocrit
- platelet count as four separate line items, an "expert" at the insurer would know that this would really be implemented as a CBC and disallow any of the charges above and beyond what.
Likewise, if a new technology became available to further reduce the cost (or combine tests), they would pressure providers to implement that technology and pass the savings along (to the insurance company).]
The interesting thing would be to see how the $32 is addressed for those folks without insurance.
- some number will simply not pay; this means a collection agency; fees for their efforts and STILL some risk that the $32 gets "eaten"
- some number will struggle to pay -- until they get into a situation where they simply can't (see above)
- some number will negotiate lower fees and/or pay over time; this means the provider "carries" the cost of the "loan"
Of course, I'm sure there is also some creative accounting involved. E.g., eventually some portion of this "loss" is written off. And, the provider *claims* $32 of loss -- for a test that is worth $3!
I.e., it would be possible to never show a profit, on paper, and still be operating with a comfortable margin!
But it is the core of the problem! It doesn't matter how you juggle the incentives, subsidies, deductions, etc. Until you address the HEALTH of the population, the *population* will pay for the cost of its care.
Even if you allow providers to refuse care to folks who can't demonstrate the ability to pay (i.e., present a charge card at time of admission) AND post armed guards at the doors to enforce this policy, you still have those "sickies" circulating in the population. *Probably* providing services to you on a daily basis -- and putting you at risk due to their "compromised health".
When I was 10, I didn't mind being sick. Gave me an excuse to stay out of school for a week (or so). And, got me special treatment at home. The discomfort eventually passes -- and I've got ~70 years to experience what life has to offer.
When you're *70*, that week can be far more valuable -- esp if you see it in the context of just ~10 more years of experiences ahead! Some sickie coughing nearby, or on my plate as he prepares it in the kitchen, or not feeling "100%" as he replaces the front pads on my car, etc. pushes some cost onto me that I'd prefer not to incur. Do I lock myself in the house to avoid contact with these people? How do I know that the canned foods I purchased weren't similarly "compromised" by a sickie who wasn't feeling up to par, that day?
I.e., regardless of how you structure the payment system, providers, etc. you *still* end up paying for the sick people.
I've little first-hand experience with the ER (despite SWMBO working at a local hospital for ~20+ years and many friends who are doctors, nurses, etc.). I'm sure the ER staff are used to folks coming in "not smelling their best" ("Are you wearing clean underwear? What if you had to go to the hospital, today??")
I figure it takes a special kind of person who wants to deal with "humans" in their less than optimal state! :>
accidents has increased... "
Also because a taillight lens which is a piece of plastic that costs $5 to make costs $500.
Price gouging, same reason we can't really get to single payer without having the government take over the system. I am dubious about that as well.
repair. Too bad you can't trade it in for a newer model that can be insured for less. "
I guess you have no experience in these matters. The parts costs for the newest cars are the highest. Most of them have to go to the dealer for almost everything.
of everyone in the group. "
Then everyone's premiums should be the same. I don't see that working.
Every other advanced industrial country has worked out more or less how to cope with that - some better than others, and Australia isn't an example to copy.
-- Bill Sloman, Sydney
s
That's how it works in every other advanced industrial country except some places do seems to allow the insurers to charge smokers and heavy drinkers more, and tee-totallers and skinny people less. No place I've lived (that I 've run into) but I have some memory of it happening.
UK medical insurance was totally fixed. Dutch medical insurance allowed som e room for negotiation about cover for dental work and the like, but there wasn't a lot in it.
-- Bill Sloman, Sydney
In the past people in this NG have told me that doesn't happen (anymore).
It doesn't surprise me that it does happen, and is a real threat to people's health.
The only solution is to be insured in as big and heterogeneous group as possible. The entire population of a country is ideal.
What doesn't happen anymore?
I'm not sure what you are talking about.
I agree.
-- Rick C
What DonY wrote and I quoted above.
Odd that you would say that especially after I told you why I have insurance,
*You* are paying to be coveredDuh!
Duh!
Pretty stupid for the dentists office, if he wanted less money for his work, he could charge less. Probably the front office screwing the boss.
God you are a genius, please tell us ignorant people all you know. Clearly you think I'm ignorant, and If I am, there are a whole lot more. So, just start at the beginning, we are all listening for your wisdom.
They can make it up on other tests. This just happened to be a repeat of one test in the panel. The paperwork is worth $3.23.
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"Honestly" no I don't and never did.
Instead, it went to pay
Or it went into some other investment as a reserve for future expenses.
Good luck with that.
Just as a toss in, my son was the victim of a hit and run... by a bicyclist. Knocked him out for a short time, someone called an ambulance that took him to the hospital. Xrays and stitches in his leg and head. I was running through the billing codes and noted the emergency room added 1-1/2" to his head laceration which was an extra charge vs the shorter laceration. I didn't complain, but it did piss me off.Also, my daughter showed up about 24 hrs after he got out of the ER and found they didn't clean him up at all. His hair was blood matted, his body had several scrapes and bruises not cleaned. My daughter cleaned him up. She called me to report he is minimizing the extent on his injuries. She was out of town when it happened and lives 2 hrs from him, I'm
4-1/2 hrs from him. I offered to come to him, and offered to bring him to my home for recuperation. "no I'll be alright dad" and he is. Mikek-- This email has been checked for viruses by Avast antivirus software. https://www.avast.com/antivirus
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