snow

This Global Warming _does_ get around...

se,

In fact, it doesn't. It concentrates itself in odd places, and can produce active cooling in others.

-- Bill Sloman, Nimegen

You prefer Moonbat's opinion over Hansen's?

If, as he said in 2008 "The recent warm winters that Britain has experienced are a clear sign that the climate is changing, he says. " Then the corollary is that the 3 more recent cold winters are a sign that climate isn't changing.

Don't you know? If it's getting warmer it's "climate", otherwise it's "weather".

Yep. Heat over Greenland is AGW, real people freezing in Eastern USA, Europe, India, Mongolia and China is weather.

d

se,

Extra-cold winters in the UK are also a sign that the climate is changinng. Hansen was predicting global warming, not the warming of any specific point on the earth's surface. Lots of points will get warmer, but some of them can get colder without changing the message.

George Monbiot is reporting more recent studies,having lookdd a the literature from a British point of view.

-- Bill Sloman, Nijmegen

Re-read the quote:

 "The recent warm winters that Britain"

I get it. Warmer UK winters is climate change. Colder UK winters is climate change. And I'm sure you would claim no change in UK winters is climate change. Heads you win, tails I lose.

Hansen was quoting from a British view point.

I understand though. The alarmists get their predictions wrong then they claim the opposite is what they meant.

BS stop the BS.

[snip]

He can't. BS == BS, by definition :-) ...Jim Thompson

-- | James E.Thompson, CTO | mens | | Analog Innovations, Inc. | et | | Analog/Mixed-Signal ASIC's and Discrete Systems | manus | | Phoenix, Arizona 85048 Skype: Contacts Only | | | Voice:(480)460-2350 Fax: Available upon request | Brass Rat | | E-mail Icon at

| 1962 | I love to cook with wine. Sometimes I even put it in the food.

I hope your friend is not too jealous, since I would like to take some winter swimming baths with her, under the moonlight or at least under the Aurora Borealis :-).

Unfortunately, getting erection in 0 C water is quite a challenge :-(.

And Moonbat is a utter commie loving socialist fruitcake. By definition anything he says is stupid and wrong. The guy needs cosmetic surgery with a pick axe.

/quote

Wealth ? is the key factor in whether or not we choose to occupy more housing space than is essential."

While most houses are privately owned, the total housing stock is a common resource. Either we ensure that it is used wisely and fairly, or we allow its distribution to become the starkest expression of inequality. The UK appears to have chosen the second option. We have allowed the market, and the market alone, to decide who gets what ? which means that families in desperate need of bigger homes are crammed together in squalid conditions, while those who have more space than they know what to do with face neither economic nor social pressure to downsize.

/end quote

What the UK needs is another war (probably an Islamic invasion) that they lose :-) ...Jim Thompson

--
| James E.Thompson, CTO                            |    mens     |
| Analog Innovations, Inc.                         |     et      |
| Analog/Mixed-Signal ASIC's and Discrete Systems  |    manus    |
| Phoenix, Arizona  85048    Skype: Contacts Only  |             |
| Voice:(480)460-2350  Fax: Available upon request |  Brass Rat  |
| E-mail Icon at http://www.analog-innovations.com |    1962     |
             
I love to cook with wine.     Sometimes I even put it in the food.

As a columnist said in another newspaper:

"George Monbiot?s solution to the housing crisis makes me wonder if the time might be right to join a gun-nut militia in Idaho."

Have you guys run out of land to build new houses on, then?

It's a pretty silly argument anyway... realistically you can only go after people by the square footage of their homes (...which, at least here in the U.S., local governments very much do, in effect...) -- how many bedrooms they choose to divide it up into is rather unreasonable to regulate. Heck, if that guy's suggestion passed, you'd just see people converting their "excess bedrooms" into "non-bedrooms" based on whatever your legal definition of a "bedroom" is. (In the U.S. the main thing is that you have to have an alternative means of exit in the case of fire -- landlords often get into trouble advertising, e.g., basements as "apartments" which often ends up being illegal if there's only one exit...)

---Joel

d

se,

Merely that it isn't changing in the obvious way. There have been winters as coldm and with a much snow in recent decades, but not three in a row, so it does look as if something might have changed.

The hypothesis that three unusually cold winters in succession is mere coincicence is - on its own - tenable, but the other changes in climate that we have seen in recent decades are less easy to atribute to coincidence.

-- Bill Sloman, Nijmegen

ist

and

worse,

...

As long as the climate hasn't changed enough to mess up the usual weather patterns, warmer winters in the UK are one of the side effects of global warming.

Now that climate change has gone far enough - melted enough ice in the Artic Ocean - to change the usual pattern of winter weather over the UK - it is now producing unusually cold winters in the UK. There have been UK winters that have been as cold in the past few decades, but not three in quick succession.

It seems - to me - most unlikely that I'd make any such claim, but your uncertain grip on reality allows to you believe all kinds of implausible nonsense.

You would like to think that.

Hansen is an american who lives in America. He isn't going to get excited about a potential change in the regular weather patterns driven by reduced sea ice cover in the Barents and Kara Seas.

Hansen wasn't making a local preduction, merely articulating the local effect of persistent global warming on a particular place without having investiaged what might happen to local weather patterns if global warmig persistend and got more intense - as it has.

The BS in this instance is you complaining about exceptional weather, then claiming that because the exceptional weather is locally colder - rather than following the global warming trend - the whole global warming trend and the well-advertised risk of local climate changes should both be ignored.

You can't seriously claim that persistent unusual winter weather, persisting for several years in succession, is evidence against climate change.

-- Bill Sloman, Nijmegen

What remains forgotten in all the meandering is that these are all local effects. The reality is that global warming isn't some particular region this year or next. Nor is it land. It is long term, global, and the oceans are 70% of the situation. In fact, the oceans are more important than the

70% alone suggests. Uncertainties in land measurement of air are far, far larger than SST measurements.

See Brohan et al., "Uncertainty Estimates in Regional and Global Observed Temperature Changes:"

"Surface air temperature over land is much more variable than the SST. SSTs change slowly and are highly correlated in space; but the land air temperature at a given station has a lower correlation with regional and global temperatures than a point SST measurement, because land air temperature (LAT) anomalies can change rapidly in both time and space. This means that one SST measurement is more informative about large-scale temperature averages than one LAT measurement."

Charts on page 21 and discussion on 22, in particular.

This group should leave the real work and conclusions to those who specialize in the intimate details and analysis (and reanalysis) rather than spend their time rearranging deck chairs on the Titanic.

Jon

Margaret Thatcher did sell off council homes - cheap - to sitting tenants in a desperate attempt to make capitalists of the poor. That the houses that she did sell off are now no longer available to those who don't have the kind of regular job that alows them to get a mortgage from the banks does make it difficult for UK town councils to fulfil their statuatory duty to find housng for "at risk" families

That George Monbiot articulates the old-fashioned socialist dogma on the subject doesn't make him either a "commie" - the species is now extinct - or a fruitcake. While I personally have reservations about seeing "the total housing stock as a common resource" I do share the perception that the free market is a means to an end, rather than an end in itself.

Exercising eminent domain to house the homeless could upset a lot of people, but the concept of emminent domain is on the statute books all over the world

though there's not much precedent for using it to house the homeless. The compulsory billetting of kids evacuated from London early in WW2 might well be seen as such a precedent.

-- Bill Sloman, Nijmegen

Read "Cool It" first. ...Jim Thompson

--
| James E.Thompson, CTO                            |    mens     |
| Analog Innovations, Inc.                         |     et      |
| Analog/Mixed-Signal ASIC's and Discrete Systems  |    manus    |
| Phoenix, Arizona  85048    Skype: Contacts Only  |             |
| Voice:(480)460-2350  Fax: Available upon request |  Brass Rat  |
| E-mail Icon at http://www.analog-innovations.com |    1962     |
             
I love to cook with wine.     Sometimes I even put it in the food.

st

and

orse,

..

.

=A0 =A0...Jim Thompson

Predictably, that other newspaper was "The Telegraph" whose readership is the UK equivalent of the gun-nut militia in Idaho. It used to be owned by Conrad Black before he went to prison for stealing money from his own company. He built up a readership that shared his psychopathic views, and the new owners continue to exploit the right-wing nut audience that he cultivated.

-- Bill Sloman, Nijmegen