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I make no apology for the railroad mess here in the US. Much of the regulation is Federal and it hardly takes notice of State PE laws. Plus too many of the top management are all about subsidies and not any other concern, reasonable or not. See also "Atlas Shrugged" and the young (Taggert Transcontinental) new CO's "Washington Ability".

?-/

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Both of my parents drove across that bridge when they were teenagers, just to feel the sway--it was apparently something lots of folks did as a cheap and unusual outing. (They hadn't met yet--my father was in the Royal Canadian Army Service Corps, and my mother was in nursing training.)

Cheers

Phil Hobbs

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=46ully understood. That is how i moved from tech to engineer at Hughes EDSG. I was even offered Senior Menber of Technical Staff in charge of degreed engineers before i got my degree.

I would assist the senior guy and not the principal in that situation as well. It may be that something else (possibly untoward) may be going on.

?-/

First I'd have to see the resume to make sure there's a possible fit, if there was a job right now. A license is not a resume :-)

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This is not about laws, this is about ethics which (supposedly) licensure should guarantee. IMHO it does not.

If someone wants to push me to release a design that I deem unsafe I will not release it. No matter who or what pushes me.

Holmes is a nut. He does find a lot of substandard work but when he can't, he invents it. Most is way overblown and much of what he calls "code" is very localized to his area (giving the benefit of the doubt). You'd think "we're all going to die"! ;-)

If you have a garage ceiling, keep Holmes away from it unless you want the whole house rebuilt....

-- Les Cargill

My, my, my... this about the man rated as second most-trusted in Canada! :-)

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Well, that just pre-emptively eliminated that "candidate".

?-/

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Actually, licensing is about passing a rather easy test. The ethics of the practitioners varies just like people do. The legislation and regulation are far more about formal aspects of procedure and formal courtroom credibility and only a little about responsibility.

?-)

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Huh? An engineer who does not send in a resume is _not_ a candidate, so could not possibly be eliminated because he or she has never properly "filed for candidacy". I thought that was rather obvious ...

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It is not. If your university didn't offer the FE test they won't let you sit for PE. If you didn't work under an engineer for x years who can sign for your work you can't sit for it. Who in many states must be a PE which generally don't exist in medical devices. This whole thing plain doesn't work.

Plus the test is utterly meaningless to the work a guy like me does. I've looked at some. One question almost made lose a sip of bottled water in a ROFL episode: How many members sit on the state license board? Yeah, now that kind of know-how will greatly augment the quality of an engineer's designs :-)

Then what good does it do? I do not develop circuitry in a court room.

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It seems that you also misunderstood the nature of my request. The idea was for your to consider "recruiting" this person. Not that this person would ever consider applying to you for a job.

Of course if you want i could ask this person to send you a resume for = you to consider, if you want to laugh and cry at the same time.

?-)

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Error. Error. Error. The local board offers the FE test, not the University. Tain't Germany. I had plenty of work experience, none of it under PEs, all accepted by = the California board. And mostly (10 years) before i had a engineering degree. Under the rules at the time that was more than enough.

And what did i tell you of the test's ease of passing if you study for = the test rather to know the material? Easy-Peasy! You haven't taken the = test yet have you? BTW i agree that for most of what you do it is often less than = meaningless unless you end up in court, then it makes a BIG difference. Also it will change your PL insurance rates, which way is not predictable.

It makes a difference in formal legal credibility. Something you may = have a personal interest in.

?-)

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I consider everyone during a job application process because I have no bias whatsoever. The word "recruiting" means enlisting or hiring. As I said several times, that _first_ requires the candidate to apply and that in turn requires a resume. In my line of work people usually don't care whether or not an applicant has a license, it is not important.

If he is interested in hardware design and able to do it, why not? I do not know of any opening at clients right now but sometimes there are. So I have a few resumes on file. But it only makes sense for a fairly self-driven person with a good dose of hardware design skills. That's usually a requirement. To other readers: No, I am not a headhunter and I do this solely as a very occasional (unpaid) courtesy to my clients. So no cold calls and such, please, and I do not know of any openings right now.

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I know that, but universities are the ones who push their studenst to do it and some offer prep course. Not in Europe because luckily most of Europe does not have licensing.

Time before a degree as "engineering time" for a license?

As I said, they will not let me sit for it. Plus it really has no significance in my field. I am not a land surveyor and I do not offer engineering services to the public.

A license could potentially even put some guys out of work. Because at least in some states PE's are required to carry PL insurances. The chance to get a policy in the US is zero for people who design medical device electronics. That instantly makes you a pariah. They have no problem insuring an oil tanker but medical is a big no-no.

I am not a very formal guy. heck, I don't even wear a tie right now :-)

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Why the shudder? Are you of the type that believes only degreed = engineers are competent? If so, haven't you seen degreed engineers that cannot = find any way out of a wet paper bag? I sure have.

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I find this difficult to believe. Maybe you have not been set to test because you do not understand the rules to apply. Of course if you have documentation you could send me a copy, you have my private address.

Land surveying is a totally different license, with different requirements.

As a consultant you do offer engineering services, though not exactly to the public.

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That is a special consideration particular to you and others in similar positions. Not directly related to the license.

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The last time i put one on was for a funeral, about a year ago. Sister = in law (brother's wife). And many years never a tie before that.

?-)

I have seen _licensed_ engineers who could not find their way. That's what I meant. Of course I know lots of non-degreed engineers that are good. What I do resent is when someone without a substantial learned _or_ acquired background sits for a test and then bureaucrats assign the title "engineer". That's not right.

BTW, I once did find a rather stark mistake that would have ended up costing us a lot. In the calculations of a licensed civil engineer.

I called and inquired and was told no. Must have FE plus four years certified by a supervising engineer, and that would have to be after FE. At least back then that's also what the rules said.

But it's water under bridge, it does not apply to my line of work.

And that's the key difference. Did you read the section about exemptions that I pointed out to you?

Of course it is related to the license. If it forces people to carry PL which has been unobtanium for years that would be very damaging to the prosperity of our country. That would be damage caused by a law, companies would move out of the country which makes such problems go away. Do you want that?

Sorry to hear that, she was probably quite young still. It was about two months ago for me, memorial service for a good friend of ours.

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Then you do not understand the purpose of the statutes and regulations.

And i regularly find better ways to do the work (and all too regularly errors or omissions) done by licensed civil engineers, and they usually adopt my changes. My license is not civil as you know.

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Let's see, i picked up my FE (EIT) as a senior in college. Graduated in

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Back when i was studying for the test i studied the legislation and regulation. I perused again at the time you pointed it out, there has been no significant change in ~20 years.

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The real end result would be that the states that required the PL insurance would not have anybody that did medical devices, to their eventual loss. Please do not confuse State issues with National issues.

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:-)

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Not terribly old, about 60. It was about a year ago now.