Should a Technician do engineering?

Canada has a lot of strange requirements, not to mention kangaroo courts. One of the reasons I left.

Cheers

Phil Hobbs

Hmm.. examples? The irritation level looks a bit lower in Canada from where I sit. Kangaroo courts? You are referring to hate speech laws?

Best regards, Spehro Pefhany

The story of Mark Steyn, for a start. In Canada you can be fined for hurting somebody's _feelings_, if that person is a member of certain favoured groups.

Cheers

Phil Hobbs

Perhaps that goes a bit far (there's a backbench bill from a member of the Conservatives to kill Section 13 of the Human Rights Act), but I don't think it's been a huge deal one way or the other in practice... it's mostly a media thing, and it's not like the seventies when access to ROW media was so limited.. if you really want to hear virulent anti-Muslim diatribes there's plenty available on the net, satellite TV etc, including from this newsgroup. On mainstream domestic media the range of opinions on Israel/Palestine is closer to the UK than the more restricted range of views allowable in the US. Even though al Jazeera English isn't available on cable in most of the US, you at least have the option of going on the net to find out more about what's going on with the Arab Spring (it's on Rogers cable and Bell here, but it costs extra).

Most of my world news I get from Bloomberg (free), South China Morning Post (subscription), NY Times (free), LA Times (free), Financial Times of London (selected articles can be free), and whatever source comes up on Google News stories or other aggregators. Occasionally I'll go to al Jazeera, Arab News, Arabic news if I want those dictatorships' views on things, or even KNCA (the DPRK news agency, hosted in Japan) for a laugh. I occasionally skim the local dailies or NY Time City edition at coffee shops, might even buy one if there is a federal budget or something. I subscribe to print editions of _The Economist_ and _Foreign Affairs_ for more in-depth information (though the former weekly is a bit of a fire hose). If cable TV and domestic print media disappeared tomorrow I wouldn't miss them very much.

Things like Ernst Zundel's activities tested the system- he was left unmolested enough that some militant groups apparently torched his house and somebody even tried to blow him up. I guess he was lfet free enough to rather seriously offend some folks.

It is a little disturbing to see Google results being censored in the US.. that could be the start of a bad trend.

Best regards, Spehro Pefhany

What a gristle joke!

al-Jazeera English is about as radical as the BBC.

The Karla Homolka news ban was the first inkling I had that freedom of the press and of speech were not as strong in Canada as in the US.

Yeah, publication bans are an attempt to balance the requirement to have open trials and the Charter requirement for press freedom with allowing consideration for victims' rights, witnesses' security/rights, protecting minors etc. Doesn't work when foreign media are allowed in and don't respect the intent of the ban.

AFAIUI, laws have been introduced in the US to prohibit the media from (for example) identifying rape victims, but have been struck down on constitutional grounds, and are seen more as a state-vs-press conflict than a victim-vs-press conflict with the state mediating. Another alternative is closed or secret (eg. military) trials (justified by national security or other strong considerations). They can't report what isn't disclosed.

AFAIUI, in practice, the US press normally exercises voluntary restraint in many cases anyhow, so the result isn't that different, much of the time.

Best regards, Spehro Pefhany

Well, quote "using compressed air to remove dust without first shutting down ignition sources". That's pretty gross.

Did you ever lose your accent, things like "hoose" or "aboat"? I never lost mine from Europe, although when I did the memorial service CD recently I've noticed it had become less over the years.

I'm from the West Coast.

Cheers

Phil Hobbs

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I am the last person you have to tell that. I have about gone crazy a = few times trying to explain ohms law to electrical PEs.

Dishonest "engineers".

court

Engineer

having

Yes, the system has some flaws.

information

signed

The difference being that the flunky said it had to be signed for by a licensed engineer. It does not. They do prefer that a licensed engineer signs for some small part of your experience.

The

Not quite.

Was the degree from a non-accredited school? For accredited schools it = is two years.

Again the issue of a licensed person versus a engineer supervising your work.

And you would have automatically lost. (Well in State court anyway.)

?-)

by the

Vetted by who? Did you provide that documentation to the Board? If the Board rejected it did you dispute the decision? Something is not = tallying here yet.

?-)

The license system is not working in the way it was intended to.

I never wrote that. I wrote "an engineer, and in some states it has to be a licensed engineer" (not in CA). And that's the facts. You chose to use a derogatory term for the people at their phone desk but I had the impression they knew the rules and the law quite well.

And precisely why not?

Sure, and I never said it has to be a licensed engineer in CA. But it has to be an engineer who truly supervised your work and that is not always possible for people who work very much self-driven. It's not just me, I know a lot of engineers who have no technical supervisor at all.

You subscribe to the notion that they are almighty? I do not. The case would be dismissed by the court because it can be easily shown that the law introduced by that very board is against them. Read the industry exemption again if you don't believe me, I had pointed out the section to you.

I've had a board (not work related) try to pull off something similar, on me and a whole group of other people. They picked the wrong fight. Suffice it to say, I am sure they'll never ever try that again.

I'd have to dig it out, it was a long time ago. It was a company accredited to do formal ABET compliance reviews that are then accepted by the federal government. It's like with EMC where you have accredited labs.

What for?

Again, I do not care about the board. It has no say in immigration matters. We do have a thing called the federal government and they get to decide a lot more than some board ... :-)

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The Federal government decides who can come into the country (despite what the Arizona Legislature thinks). But they lack the general police power. Each state is responsible for the health and safety of its citizens. So, they regulate engineers as they regulate any profession, to protect its citizens from harm caused by the engineer, the cosmetologist, the dental hygienist, etc.

So, the CA legislature decided that for the protection of the citizenry, that the professional engineer licensing board would give experience credit only for ABET-accredited degrees. Not "ABET- equivalent" whatever that may mean. That means that, for example, Stanford-educated software engineers are SOL, while San Jose State- educated engineers get full credit.

This does not discriminate against foreign-trained engineers, because ABET will cheerfully accredit (or not) schools located anywhere in the world.

Foreign trained physicians, veterinarians, lawyers, etc., undergo the same hassles.

the

In reality such "protection" ain't working. Other than for turf protection, of course.

That's de-facto age discrimination.

Well, the industry eemption takes care of all that for engineers. And Stanford guys are allowed to design stuff :-)