Re: Sayonara

Sorry, I missed that webpage with the simple, printed formula that computes a fair numerical benefit for any person, regardless of circumstances, anywhere in America.

Where is it? What's the formula?

James Arthur

ote:

dded

oore

j1E

are

elfare

=A0 =A0 ...Jim Thompson

o grow up

In a sense, the welfare itself is what makes the children possible. Without that guarantee, people used to be a lot more careful. And their families--who didn't like supporting them--screamed at them to be more responsible too, keeping them in line.

President Johnson fixed all that.

-- Cheers, James Arthur

Report him to the IRS and the state for fraud. That's the honest thing to do.

It's motivation.

welfare

There used to be a stigma about being on relief. You didn't want to do it, and if you did, you got off as quickly as you could.

But then, in the 60's and 70's, a new meme took hold, those that purposely went on 'relief.' Welfare moms, entire households of multiple generations living comfortably on the dole. And, the sad truth was, it was ENCOURAGED by those in authority. People dependent on the government voted for more government. Government that promised to 'take care' of people got reelected. So, now we have a society in which half of the population doesn't pay income taxes. More and more people are encouraged to use government relief services in their everyday lives, and those services are breaking down under the load.

And nutcases like Bill still don't understand that there is anything wrong! 8-)

Charlie

welfare

up

The neighborhood where I grew up was a nice area of single-family homes (even with some interspersed farm land) built for soldiers returning from WWII... my parents bought a house there in 1947.

The neighborhood was a middle-class mix of whites _and_ blacks... the wealthiest was a black family (with a turkey farm :-)

Now it's a slum with many homes replaced by multi-story government housing (tenements)... so run down and scary-looking that, when I was last in Huntington (for my Father's funeral), I didn't feel safe leaving the car to take photographs.

There are no Caucasians left there.

So much for government "assistance". ...Jim Thompson

Well, hey... it's pretty well-produced; definitely gives Michael Moore

At 2:18 she says "somebody needs to pay for all my children...take care

Whut? I have known very, very few people who *preferred* to be on relief/welfare. I know a lot of people who have had some measure of trouble finding a job - not because they aren't qualified, but because jobs are disappearing.

We did the math here - "welfare" welfare is not that significant a load on the economy - under 5% of GDP (more like 2-3% ) .

Disability, SS and Medicare are a problem.

When people who don't have a lot of savings go out of the job market, they go on disability. We can't shoot 'em...

That isn't a problem in itself, except that it reflects the fact that wages are flat as a still pond.

-- Les Cargill

,snip>>

You see, you define relief = welfare, when it encompasses a much larger number of programs today. You should go to the grocery store more often. It seems like about half the folks in the check out are doing the 'food stamp shuffle' where they pick one from column A, put all their 'not-allowed' products in group B, and spend an extra five minutes paying for everything.

No, it is a problem. We have convinced over 50% of Americans that they should get a 'free ride' from everyone else, or actually get something more from everyone else. It is a pernicous attitude that should be stopped!

Fuck you. I ended up on disability a couple years before retirement because my health failed. I spent my life savings over three years and went hungry for a while, before I filed. No one was going to hire anyone in my condition, and the VA approved my disability so fast that no one could believe it. The letter granting disability stated that it was obvious that I would never be able to work again. Do you really think that I want to scrape by on $1021 a month, instead of being able to work? You should try it sometime, before you spout off. Then you can see what it's like to go without anything more than the basics. Hoping that a 15 year old truck will run for a few more years. Spending a lot of time changing dressings on two year old wounds and needing medical care that you can't afford. How would you like blood, puss and plasma running down your legs daily, for years? Doctors telling you that 'You aren't old enough to have that problem' when you've coped with it for a decade, or more.

Cargill is another one of those useless leftist weenies who, when Obama completely collapses the country, can be shot without penalty ;-)

Hang in there, Michael, so you can participate !-) ...Jim Thompson

This is true. Scope is always iffy in these threads.

I thought the subject was "welfare moms, entire households... on the dole" above. That sounds suspiciously like *welfare* welfare, not a modest food subsidy to the working poor.

Once upon a time, there were "commdities". You went to the ... USDA? office, signed up they gave you stuff like powdered milk, beans, cheese.

These were in essence oversupply bought by the USDA as part of farm subsidies.

Some genius decided that rather than keep that whole infrastructure in place, why we'd just have "generic" foodstuffs and allow people to buy the stuff in stores. To replace the subsidy, food stamps were invented. Maybe it saved money; I dunno. Ex ante, it looks like it would be very price-distorting, and it is.

Other than the delay in line, I doubt the whole program really costs *anything* in real terms. It's kind a' like WIC; it runs the price of cheese and milk up.

If I read this right:

It's (rounding up) $78B. That's in the noise. I don't see any positive feedback runaway here...

We *have* absorb the fact that work is a declining factor of production. Because you have to absorb facts.

I do not give a rat's patoot about *anybody's* "attitude". We do progressive taxation in the US. This is a good thing, for cultural as well as economic efficiency reasons.

The reason people are out of work is that more and more work is done by machines. It's not like we're short on goods and services. If you're gonna enjoy the resulting low prices, you gotta pony up to keep people alive who got "made redundant" by that process.

We *have* absorb the fact that work is a declining factor of production. Because you have to absorb facts.

-- Les Cargill

They should have, sounds like. That's not what I am talking about.

Where did anything I wrote apply to you? You have an obvious diability. I'd say the system worked, with a handful of horror stories to go along with it.

-- Les Cargill

You couldn't identify a leftist with a compass, map and a big orange arrow saying "LEFTIST HERE!." s.e.d is a bastion of utter, complete and total economic ignorance. It's amusing.

-- Les Cargill

welfare

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Sell them some old shrimp... make the world a better place ;-) ...Jim Thompson

welfare

Exactly. The threat of removing them from the parents, and with the child the crack ticket, the incentive to keep the oven hot ends.

He "fixed" a lot. Chasing the father out of the home was such a good idea, too.

I dunno... the way some people sound, you'd think we should just use these disabled folks for organ donors. Solves two or three problems all at once.

I'll second that. The way some people say it, you'd think we're living in the lap of luxury, doing drugs and booze just waiting for our next check so we can go to Europe or buy a yacht or something. Trust me on this, no one's getting rich on disability.

I spend half my pension on rent, leaving me with precious little for luxuries such as food. The only way I could afford to take drugs would be for me to sell them, which would probably generate enough income where I wouldn't have to be on disability in the first place. I can't even afford the drugs I'm *supposed* to be taking, far less any I'm not supposed to take.

When I want to have a good time, I save up my money and blow it on a wild spree at Starbucks. Just living la vida loca, that's me...

In the meantime I get to listen to all those experts telling me how I'm a useless drain on society, too lazy to work, blah, blah, blah. I worked for nearly fifty years and paid into the system I'm "draining." For a good thirty of those years, doctors were encouraging me to go on disability. I didn't feel it was the "right" thing to do, so I kept trying to work.

The problem is that people get a very biased view of what's going on. Guys like me and Michael don't make the news. It's the occasional welfare fraud, the "octomoms" who get all the attention, giving people the impression that everyone receiving benefits is a leech. That's simply not true. But you never learn this from the news. The only way to really understand is to go through the experience yourself - and by the time that happens, it's too late. No one listens to you because you're one of "them" - another leech.

I wouldn't wish this life on anyone, but I do wish the people who so easily dismiss us as being parasites would somehow have their eyes opened to the reality of what it's like. Michael and I are not the exceptions. Most of us are like this. The frauds are rare.

This is not a life anyone would choose. I am grateful that my basic needs are taken care of. I can eat, I have a roof over my head, and I can sometimes get the medicine I need. It's better than nothing. But it's not a great lifestyle.

is

It's a little more complicated than that, and way ti complicated for you to understand, even if you wanted to.

-- Bill Sloman, Nijmegen

bedded

Moore

SEj1E

care

welfare

=A0 =A0 =A0 ...Jim Thompson

to grow up

Have you got any evidence to support that claim? IIRR the proportion of kids born out of wedlock didn't start rising until people stopped bothering to get married, which wasn't until quite a while after President Johnson.

It might have kept some of them in line, but parental influence has never been absolute, no matter how much financial clout they wield.

You'd like to think so, which isn't enough - on its own - to make the idea credible.