Please help with a home invention...

On Mon, 30 Oct 2006 05:23:27 +0000, Robert Baer wrote: ...

That's an awful lot of hardware - the thing he wants to control sounds like an irrigation ditch, with something like a dam with a spillway that he can open and close (or maybe even make the whole dam go away and come back ;-) ) - he hasn't really said what's already in place, other than that it's a gate valve. It makes a difference if it's, say, 6" square vs, say, 2 x 3 ft.

Nate, just how big of a thing are we dealing with here?

Thanks, Rich

Hello everybody! Oh, geez, I hope you guys are ready for this and I apologize in advance...I went over to my grandfather's house on Sunday and discovered his task of irrigation. Well, apparently, it's a little more complex than I thought. Upon telling my grandfather of our discussions about "automating" the two small irrigation holes at the front and back yards where the 'knife gates' lift up and down, he said, "Great ideas!" Then he laughed and said, "Follow me."

We walked over to the side alley toward the front of the road (his house faces a major road) and I discovered two distinct concrete-based structures, each about 5 x 5 feet square.

Basically, what we have here is a setup where there a 'main' water flow control, which is run by the water company and the "auxilliary" which is controlled by my grandfather...the main structure (controlled by water co.) has a lockable "wheel knob" on the top that opens and closes the main waterflow beneath. Apparently, my grandfather's chore is to get his share of water at the scheduled waterflow releases by the water company (twice a month in summer, once a month in winter). The water is usually released between 12 am to 2 am in the morning. As you'd expect, he has to push down a rusty, creekity-old version of a knife gate (about 2 x 3 foot metal plate) on one side to stop the incoming water from going beyond to his neighbors, then he has to lift up yet another metal plate (gate) which is facing our yard to allow the flow inward to the two small outlets (holes) in the front and back yards...if not, he'd be "s.o.l." and they would get lots of extra H2O. This auxilliary structure (with the two gates inside) probably goes 5-7 ft beneath the ground with 6-in. concrete wall slabs...yikes. And believe you me, it was a pain in the @$$ lifting the yard-facing gate (crookity-thingy). He even places two big bricks on the metal gate of the front yard hole to keep the water on course to the back yard...then, when the back yard is filled, he comes over to the front hole and takes off the bricks and lifts up the gate.

So much for the automation idea. But as stubborn as I am, I suggested to my grandfather that we apply the idea (or another version of it) to the "auxilliary" system that he was showing me. Of course, it was agreed that essentially the entire thing would have to be rebuilt or something else fairly costly.

I suppose I'll leave the verdict to you, my 'faithful blog-a-teers.' Should I scrape together the necessary funds to create a world-class system which (according to my grandpa, lol) I could then sell to water companies across the nation (ha!)? Or, should I just scrap this whole thing and admit defeat and succumb to the acute dregs of manual labor (eventually, I may be taking over this wonderful chore, weee). The other option is to hire a...uh, nevermind. I'd like to again thank all of you guys for the excellent suggestions and discussions...for better or worse, I really surprised my gramps!

Sincerely, Nathan

P.S. That water pump idea sounds kinda good, hmmmmm.

Rich Grise wrote:

Not sure which water pump idea but perhaps a water pump that pumps the water over the 'gate' as needed. Low lift - shouldn't need much power.

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Let's see, major increase in gate "valve" size, minor increase in complexity. This is still doable but not without an electrical contractor. The problem then is to force the contractor to use standard stuff that "anyone" (qualified / contractor) can fix. Next is the issue is that you will actually really need a small PLC (programmable logic controller) to run the installation; it will not be all that cheap. Make sure that the PLC has an interface to any pc, and very user friendly pc software.

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 JosephKK
 Gegen dummheit kampfen die Gotter Selbst, vergebens.  
  --Schiller

Frankly, this is definitely the cheapest option. I was at my folks's place in So. Cal, and they had a leaky sprinkler, so they called a sprinkler guy. He diagnosed the leak, realized he had to dig about a 3-foot hole, looked up and said, "I'm gonna go get a laborer."

Apparently, in certain parts of the country, they're quite affordable. :-)

Good Luck! Rich

Well, I just had irrigation run to my backyard. Called the contractor that did the front yard for the builder, told him what I wanted to do. He of course says, no, don't connect to where your hose bib is, no pressure. We will just run it from the main water line in front.

For the front yard, he had 5 hispanic laborers, with narrow trench shovels and rakes. In half an hour, they had found the main water line, and trenched across my front yard to the hole in the wall used for drainage. You couldn't use the Ditch Witch, too many existing water, drains and irrigation lines.

In the back yard, he had a nice self propelled Ditch Witch, which did all the trenching for the back yard in another half hour. After he put the pipes in, he had kept two of the laborers around to fill in the trenches. Since the backyard was still 'virgin' soil, unlike the front, the ditch witch saved hours. Our soil is basically one part dirt, one part sand, one part gravel, and two parts rocks. It is just about easier to dig through concrete!

All in all, it took him about 4 hours, most of which was just cutting and joining pipe! If I had to do it, it would have taken days...

Charlie

Aren't Ditch Witches nice ?:-)

But I'm like you, I just tell my yard guy, "Bubbler by palm tree in back yard is making a puddle" ;-)

That happened last week... turned out that some rodent had chewed part way into a main feed line that was under a sidewalk. But all my "underpasses" are 3" ABS, so it was trivial to fix.

...Jim Thompson

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|  James E.Thompson, P.E.                           |    mens     |
|  Analog Innovations, Inc.                         |     et      |
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Late at night, by candle light, "Nate" penned this immortal opus:

Motorized gates. Used all over the world in water and effluent treatment plants. Take your pick of pneumatic or electric actuators. A jiffy to control with a PLC. I'm just setting up a few in our WTP with PLC and SCADA. The plant operators won't ever get their asses off the chair again. A little bit costly though.

- YD.

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