OT: Post Turtle

of his body.

?

ople who have

. l

ency

tion of a

ftist

ing is

mb

t to

from

Lysenko logic.

If you want to figure out how much IR is blocked, you need to look at where the lines are as well as how wide they are. When the overlap, their effects no longer simply add.

That's a separate issue. It's like cascading filters, electrical or optical, a linear effect as far as I know. The issue here is whether adding CO2 to the atmosphere has much effect, through pressure broadening, on absorption by other gasses. Nobody here seems to know.

I was accused of being ignorant because I didn't know, so I suppose that makes us all ignorant. That hasn't stopped people from lecturing me.

John

You lack an elitist PhD, John. So you're supposed to go sit in the corner and shut up.

I haven't seen any three-year-out climate predictions yet. Have you ?:-)

...Jim Thompson

--
| James E.Thompson, P.E.                           |    mens     |
| Analog Innovations, Inc.                         |     et      |
| Analog/Mixed-Signal ASIC\'s and Discrete Systems  |    manus    |
| Phoenix, Arizona  85048    Skype: Contacts Only  |             |
| Voice:(480)460-2350  Fax: Available upon request |  Brass Rat  |
| E-mail Icon at http://www.analog-innovations.com |    1962     |
|                                                                |
|        America: Land of the Free, Because of the Brave         |
|                                                                |
|  Due to excessive spam, googlegroups, UAR & AIOE are blocked!  |

I never had time for grad school. I was so busy designing stuff I barely managed to finish my BSEE.

I've seen predictions of a 10-year cooling trend.

John

Ok, a couple of thoughts on this...

The only way I can see 'pressure' broadening having an effect, would be that the Partial Pressure of CO2 has increased due to the additional amounts in the atmosphere. Now, if this is so, then I expect that two measurements would quickly show and measure the effects.

One, a laboratory setup, with a, let us say, 100 meter tube of gas. Using an interferometry setup, you could measure the absorption/scattering of a STP mix of air with two controlled levels of CO2, one with the level of say 200 years ago, and one with the presently measured CO2 level. Heck, you could even DOUBLE the present CO2 level for a third measurement. You could then, without a doubt, measure the pressure broadening effects of CO2. If you needed to somehow measure the effects at different altitudes, just reducing the pressure and/or temperature could give you a whole set of measurements. Sounds like a simple atmospheric physics experiment which should pretty much put the issue to rest.

Second, there should be full spectrum measurements, probably with an interferomentric spectroscope, of our normal solar insolation at some point or points both above and below the atmosphere. That should tell us what effects the CO2 is having on the levels of insolation, and if any 'pressure broadening' is actually effecting the IR levels we receive...

But then, I am an experimentalist, not a theorist! ;-)

Charlie

d -

sane,

a-red

a

of a

) and

s are

=A0 =A0...Jim Thompson

08

I've seen claims of a cooling trend over the last 10 years, but no one has been able to provide the data to back it up.

d -

sane,

a-red

a

of a

) and

s are

=A0 =A0...Jim Thompson

08

Here is another SHNS article on globaal warming:

Data? It's all just a wide variety of simulations and guesses.

John

fied -

insane,

nfra-red

of a

re of a

gen) and

ines are

ic

at

ap,

. g u

=A0 =A0 =A0...Jim Thompson

1-08

???

"...a cooling trend over the last 10 years..."

Surely someone was keeping track?

d -

sane,

a-red

a

of a

) and

s are

=A0 =A0...Jim Thompson

08

Pity about that. Phil Chapman's main claim to fame is that he he first Australia-born astronaut, which seems to get him more media attention than he deserves. The "Australian" published a correctly dismissive response fom a real scientist a few days later

-- Bill Sloman, Nijmegen

1-08

It is a pity that you lack the capacity to distinguish between the sort of guess that Phil Chapman published - which ignored a lot of relevant data - and the kinds of simulations that the IPCC present, which are tested against the data we have.

If you had a little more sense of what was going on you might have realised that

does push a particular view-point. I doubt that you will find this published reaction to Phil Chapman's inept guesswork there

-- Bill Sloman, Nijmegen

-

ane,

-red

a

f a

and

are

If John had got a Ph.D. he might well have learned to be more critical of published claims - my Ph.D. thesis did include a survey of the literature on the chemical reaction I studied and on the reactions of a couple of similar compounds, and I did find some papers that obviously weren't to be relied on. In one case I was even able to work out what must have been wrong with the original experiment. A capacity for critical thinking is one of the skills that is supposed to be cultivated in candidates for a Ph.D. but it is a skill that you can develop in many other environments.

)

Jim repeats his silly question. I'm reminded of Dirac's "It is not even wrong".

-- Bill Sloman, Nijmegen

They multiply not add. That is far from a linear effect.

In the case of filters. If filter A removes 100% of the 900nM light, there is none left for filter B to remove. This is a very non-linear interaction.

No the issue is whether the line widths for CO2 are different in the real atmosphere than in the lab.

IRRC you made the claim that it didn't matter. The partial pressure of CO2 is low. Most of its interactions will be with N2. The amount of broadening from N2 pressure is something that could be looked up. The CO2 is also subject to some intensity of IR (that intensity can be looked up) and this causes further broadening, saturation and shift in the line. All these numbers are known by those who specialize in the subject.

6%)

Well, then what are your standards for successful vs failed medical treatments for a life-threatening condition? How much the doctor billed?

John