OT. More Government

t old

In the US, carriers are no longer obligated to provide Analog cellular service (though a few still do, of course - but not in any of the major metro areas).

Therefore, older analog-only phones can not be used in most areas.

In response to someone else's statement earlier in this thread, Average Revenue per User (AVPR) is running about $52. (AT&T, as reported in Wireless Week Sept 2008)

Interestingly, that rate has not changed significantly over the past 8 financial quarters ($49.21 to $50.82) while the portion of that attributed to data (SMS text messaging, etc..) jumped significantly (from $6.32 to $11.59).

The point being, SMS takes FAR FEWER network resources.

Enjoy those rollover minutes. And know you're getting screwed -- again! You are actually paying about the same, for less. (In the aggregate, of course. Your mileage may differ...)

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If I were poor and had no health insurance, I probably could not afford to see the doctor to get the $4 prescription in the first place!

And if I went through some government-sponsored plan (County Heath Dept, etc..), the vast majority of those either have onsite pharmacies, or have approved formula plans with approved vendors (which may or may not include companies like WalMart) to control costs.

And again, you can bet all of these negotiated providers are charging much more than the the discounted $4 plan rate. (Whatever they negotiated, or perhaps even the full price of the drug.)

But again, my original point is not in whether a few bucks can be saved in the minority of cases. My point is legislators are presented with these plans as if they are golden and beyond reproach, and thus set forth the notion that no government intervention is needed in controlling prescription medication costs.

Oh, they've got a discount program? How responsible of them. Guess we don't need to intervene.

It's a bunch of horseshit.

Sno-o-o-o-ort ;-)

...Jim Thompson

--
| James E.Thompson, P.E.                           |    mens     |
| Analog Innovations, Inc.                         |     et      |
| Analog/Mixed-Signal ASIC\'s and Discrete Systems  |    manus    |
| Phoenix, Arizona  85048    Skype: Contacts Only  |             |
| Voice:(480)460-2350  Fax: Available upon request |  Brass Rat  |
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     Liberals are so cute.  Dumb as a box of rocks, but cute.

Jim Thompson wrote in news: snipped-for-privacy@4ax.com:

the Government could not even run the Senate lunchroom.(or Post Office) what makes people think they can run any business???

there's SO much waste and overhead;heck,Gov't is nothing BUT overhead. that's why it's necessary to MINIMIZE gov't.

--
Jim Yanik
jyanik
at
kua.net

There are free clinics around here, and Medi-Cal. But neither privides drugs. So the Wal-Mart thing us great.

Any time you want to start making sense, we're ready to listen.

John

I pretty much outlined the argument. What I need to do now is grab the full list of $4 medications available at WalMart and see what these generic drugs typically cost at other stores. Here's the current list:

You'll notice pretty quickly that the "291 Prescriptions" (touted in WalMart's press release during the initial rollout in Tampa, FL) is immediately misleading. Most folks hear "291prescriptions" and think

291 drugs. But check the list, Amoxicillin is on the list 14 times!! (As an example. There are many repeats.)

And, amoxicillin is not a particularly expensive drug by any means.....

Then (from the WalMart web site) I saw this little zinger:

"The list of eligible drugs in the $4 Prescriptions Program =97 available at Walmart, Neighborhood Market and Sam's Club pharmacies nationwide =97 represents up to 95 percent of the prescriptions written in the majority of therapeutic categories. The affordable prices for these prescriptions are available for commonly prescribed dosages for up to 30-day or 90-day supplies. Ask your pharmacist or physician about switching to 90-day prescriptions for appropriate medications."

Obviously, 95% nearly jumps off the page at you. But read it: it says "UP TO" and that is (perhaps) only in the "majority of therapeutic categories" - which are not even defined. Can you say pain reliever? Maybe it is 95% in one category, and barely 2% in all the rest combined? How are we to know? It's misleading at best.

Let's just take one at random for which we can easily price-compare online: From page-3 of WalMart's list: Folic Acid 1 mg tablet, 30 pills total for $4 (1 mo supply).

I check Vitamin World's price for nearly the same thing:

Result:

100 Tablets, 0.8mg (close enough), for $3.99 That's right boys and girls... That's a penny LESS for getting more than 3x the medication supply.

My point is, you can do pretty much the same thing with many of the other drugs listed. I'm not a doctor, so of course many of these medication names are unfamiliar to me. I'm willing to bet however, that there aren't any tremendous savings in that list. A few maybe, but not enough to "benefit all consumers" as WalMart claimed in its press release.

I agree that WalMart has vast purchasing power and could pass the savings on to customers. (They can also drive away needed competition and, on balance, cause more harm than good than any $4 prescription program could ever do - but that's a different argument than the one I raised.) In general, I believe price competion is good, as long as it does not result in unfair monopolies.

Then of course we have the whole US-China trade deficit to consider. How many of those $4 drugs are manufactured overseas? On balance, is it "good for consumers" to lose jobs in order to have minimal savings on a bogus $4 prescription program? I don't think so.

Also, "all consumers" (as written in the press release) implies cash- customers as well as those with health insurance, co-pays, or other drug prescription plans, even instutional buyers I guess?. At best, I see the $4 program working for cash customers (assuming the financial barriers of seeing a doctor in the first place are not cost- prohibitive - which of course they are in the majority of cases. That's why Emergency Rooms are overflowing.)

But by WalMart's own numbers, only about 13% of the $4 drug program prescriptions are for cash sales (i.e., no insurance). So on balance, I say Whoopeee-d-do.

Pure Horseshit. (Which as any intelligent farm boy can tell you is a lot different from the plain ole variety.)

The problem is not the isolated cash-customer who, admittedly, probably DOES stand to benefit (marginally) from the WalMart and similar programs!!

THE REAL PROBLEM is these programs don't cover the expensive drugs that people really need help with. My point: It's not the $4 - $10 prescription that's driving people bankrupt, especially if they could get those same drugs for about the same price elsewhere (or even cheaper as I previously pointed out.) It's the $80, and $150, and $3,000 drugs that are the problem!

Yet having these WalMart-type programs "takes the heat off" everybody to anything about it. I guess the rationale is only the poor need help. And Insurance companies (until quite recently) seem to be doing just fine.

You may disagree, but that's the way I see it. Astra-Zenica does the same thing. You see the commercials on TV all the time.

(Or Google Montel Williams)

Maybe someone here will know the true generic cost of some other drugs on the list. I had another link (which I lost somehow), that showed many on the list were on the order of $0.05 to $0.13 a tablet. Curiously that same thirty $0.13 tablets is right around $4. Hummm..

-mpm

I want to also just point out that in the fine print on the WalMart site, they do state that some of the drugs on their list are priced higher in California.

I assume the "Cal" in "Medi-Cal" refers to California??

It's not *all* generics. It's a pretty good list of them though. IIRC there are a couple my wife takes that aren't on the list.

Some of the $4 specials are cheaper than my co-pays (now that I have a co-pay). So I save and my insurance company saves. WallyWorld isn't being forced to do it (BTW, most of the grocery stores here now do it too). Everyone wins. Even "mpm" and other whining weenies have something to keep them happy.

What do you expect from a dick.

--
Keith

You don't sound like much of a businessman then. Most I know often go without paying themselves.

Cash flow is the key. Without it you're dead. Loans are used to level cash flow.

--
Keith

No shit. Which one brings the worst depression? I am back on the fence. Just remember the house Dems were pushing for the first really defective version.

Women's shelters too.

Do you believe that analog phones are the only ones being turned in or are useful? IOW, your argument, as usual, is nonsensical.

...and that's relevant how?

...and your point is? Is SMS a requirement? Are you being FORCED to use it? I've used it exactly twice, never out going.

Nonsense.

That's fair. You are making less and less sense.

--
Keith

Damn straight!

That website is about safe business practices, not free cell phones.

is the proper website, and the service is offered in place of the discounted land line phone service which is about $12 a month. There is no long distance, no caller ID or any other 'features'. Just basic local service to be able to call around town, to your doctors, or 911. the only difference in it and basic phone service is the federal taxes are waived.

Tracfones are reconditioned cell phones that sell for about $10 in places like K-mart, Wal-Mart, Target & other large retail stores. Tracfone is a pay asa you go service, and doesn't offer contracts, so wy does it bother you? If you want limited capability, and average or below service you too can buy a trackphone & all the minutes you want. It's one of the cheapest phone services availible in the US.

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There are two kinds of people on this earth:
The crazy, and the insane.
The first sign of insanity is denying that you\'re crazy.

If you are ever in SacTown i can show you the other W-mart. Not so pretty.

d s

ng FORCED

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Sorry Keith, I'll try to dumb-down my posts for you.

"amdx" skrev i meddelelsen news:b7bdc$48ece3d1$18d6b40c$ snipped-for-privacy@KNOLOGY.NET...

Well - the US goobermint is already about 70 Trillion in the hole (present value difference between all the government's projected future spending obligations and all its projected future tax receipts -

A few trillion more or less are not going to change the inevitable outcome.

It's important to prioritize ones expenses - the kids function better half pissed anyway.

"krw" skrev i meddelelsen news: snipped-for-privacy@news.individual.net...

If the drugs are from China they will be laced with Melamine. To keeps long-term healthcare costs in live with government objectives.

Yes, I pointed out that I didn't finish the link, sorry.

So, they get one or the other? Or do the taxpayers get to buy both for them.

From the site: "Features such as caller ID, call waiting and voicemail are all also included with your service." And I don't see anything about no long distance service.

innews: snipped-for-privacy@4ax.com:

Well, they've certainly done a bang-up job making sure everyone--and I do mean EVERYONE--gets cheap mortgages. Oh, wait, that might be a bad example...

I'd keep the infrastructure bits, but the re-distribution-of-wealth bits just seem to cause trouble.

James Arthur