Hi,
I think his only real problem I can see (which I share) is wasting time trying to argue with you lol. You are perfectly happy with Monsanto and other chemical corporations poisoning the world and patenting the food supply, while the populations disease epidemics of obesity and mental illness spreads, so you arguments for herd immunity, which don't do anything to fix the real issues of health are illogical as usual.
cheers, Jamie
Yep Bill is arguing against his own health in the end.
cheers, Jamie
Hi Bill,
I realize you don't comprehend the simple principle of holistic wisdom, due to your reductionist habit. Your continual request for reductionist evidence is like asking someone who understands the principle of addition to continuously prove why 1+1=2 and why 1+2=3 and why 1+3=4 etc, without ever grasping the principle of addition. I have a simple holistic understanding of the microbiome and what exists in it in a healthy person is evidence of a beneficial function to me. I am always interested in the specific evidence that supports my original long held belief regarding this, but I don't seek out or require reductionist evidence to prop up my belief about the microbiome.
I can easily look up studys showing the beneficial nature of gut viruses, but really why would I try to explain 1+10 = 11, when already I went from 1+1 to 1+9 and you still don't see any pattern?
cheers, Jamie
her gut bacteria, and got sick with B-vitamin deficiency. Her husband - who eventually got a D.Sc. in animal nutrition - recognised
what was going on from his veterinary experience and dosed her up with B-vitamin supplements. The rest of the family got to hear
about it in detail, me included.
machinery and has to take over the replication machinery of a cell to replicate itself, necessarily killing the cell in the process.
work out how to make the factory farms less profitable.
>
Actually, I think that Monsanto's schemes with genetically modified seed we re pretty greedy. I am not "perfectly happy" with everything Monsanto does
- I'm just not willing to go along with your mindless blanket-condemnation of everything they do.
You are such a simple-minded dim-wit that your brain has only got room for binary distinctions - if I don't agree with you on everything, I've got to be disagreeing with you about everything.
What's "herd immunity" got to do with obesity or mental health?
"Herd immunity" is another of those complicated ideas that you can't get yo ur pointy little head around, so I should be surprised that you confuse it with two completely different (and largely independent problems - though yo u do have to be a bit insane to let yourself get fat).
-- Bill Sloman, Sydney
That's a very long winded way of saying that he tried and couldn't find one.
His " simple holistic understanding of the microbiome" is so simple-minded that he doesn't understand the basic difference between every virus and every bacterial cell, let alone its significance.
It's our social responsibility to persuade this clown that he should not be giving advice about stuff that he clearly doesn't understand, but he's too dumb to realise how much of a total prat he is.
-- Bill Sloman, Sydney
virus and every bacterial cell, let alone its significance.
but he's too dumb to realise how much of a total prat he is.
Hi,
I see your cynical reductionist view is impermeable to logic, but sure since you insist I will describe how 1+10=11, and just so you know I didn't do any searching about how I came to this conclusion, I just had a belief in the underlying holistic principle of beneficial microbiota and just now I did my first google search and found many results showing that viruses are beneficial in the body:
(It's really easy I just typed in this "beneficial bacteriophage gut" to google)
"The researchers found evidence that these phages partner with animals and humans to stave off bacterial infections and control the composition of friendly microbes in your body. Like it or not, you and these snot-dwelling viruses have a symbiotic relationship with one another!"
"This is consistent with the ?kill-the-winner? dynamics, which suggests that phage predation is preferentially directed against bacteria that are better adapted to a physical environment and that consequently are present at high numbers in that environment [10]. Similar data have been reported for the horse gut, where the diversity and abundance of Escherichia coli strains have been shown to be directly linked to the relative abundance of specific coliphages [6]. Recently, it was shown how bacteriophages can drive strain diversification in a marine bacterium, i.e., Flavobacterium [8]. This study represents the first direct experimental demonstration of phage-driven generation of functional diversity within a bacterial host population and provides important implications for both phage susceptibility and physiological properties."
That is an interesting one, since it shows that the bacteriophages (viruses) are responsible for maintaining gut bacterial diversity, which is the primary known indicator of gut floral health (ie it is good to have high gut bacterial diversity)
Here's some more, it is all reductionist info but still supports the holistic mindset being correct:
Ok its your turn 1+11 =? Hint use your imagination its not that complicated, take a wild guess then type it into google. Good luck! :)
If you can't teach a man to fish then maybe you are feeding a troll, and maybe his name is Bill?
cheers, Jamie
This a bit rich, from somebody who doesn't appreciate the fundamental difference between bacteria and viruses. Not only are you an ignorant nitwit, but now you wan to be a patronising ignorant nitwit.
Your understanding is quite a bit too over-simplified to be useful, reliable, correct or safe.
Your belief is quite independent of evidence. You cherry-pick the phrases you like and fail to understand the rather more complicated message of which they formed a part.
There is a simple pattern here - you look for what you want see, and see it when it really isn't there, because you don't actually understand what you are looking at.
As if Jamie had any logic to deploy.
And failed to comprehend what you found.
This is one of your half-witted "natural health" publications and is a popularisation of the Nature article below. Essentially the bacteriophages in the mucus are exploiting its function as a bacteria trap, and making it a more effective trap in the process.
They aren't "controlling the composition of friendly microbes in your body" but just killing off unfriendly ones who want to get through the mucus to get at you. One can see how a half-witted journalist could have misread the article as supporting your bacterial community cods-wallop, but that's not actually what the Nature article says.
This is written in terms of bacteriophages killing off bacteria in the gut, or - more rarely - using them to churn out toxins rather than new viruses. The virus works to our advantage to the extent that it prevents any one bacterial species from dominating the population in our gut. It's certainly not working to the advantage of the gut bacteria.
The bacteriophages maintain bacterial diversity in the gut the by killing off the most successful species of bacteria, which isn't actually any form of symbiosis.
They don't have any mechanism for selecting a bacterial species which is good - or bad - for us. They just go for any bacterium which gets numerous enough to support an increasing population of bacteriophages.
Again this isn't about symbiosis. The mucus is there to trap bacteria, and the bacteriophages have evolved to cling to the mucus so that they can attack and exploit the trapped bacteria. Those viruses work to our advantage, but they aren't symbiotic with the bacteria that they attack.
It isn't that complicated, but complicated enough that you've missed the actual messages, and convinced yourself that what little you have understood - nowhere near enough - supports message that you wanted to find.
If the potential student -you - is too dim to learn or too unwilling to try to learn - trying to instruct him may look like trolling.
-- Bill Sloman, Sydney
Hi Bill,
Way to go Bill you figured it out :D
cheers, Jamie
If you weren't so busy looking for confirmation, you would have noticed that what I "figured out" - which is to say, saw in the published paper - isn't quite what you thought you saw.
There's no "holistic" activity going on, just predatory behaviour. Our organs have evolved to exploit it, but it's a complex and chaotic system, and goes wrong from time to time. Think Crohn's disease.
-- Bill Sloman, Sydney
}snip{
Ah, I see. As in thought police and censorship, no?
joe
Childish behaviour to start bad mouthing if one can't win with arguments.
Compare success rates of 'conventional' and holistic cancer treatments.
Weak non-argument.
}snipped some more non-arguing badmouthing ad hominem stuff{
joe
What is the value of 'herd immunity' if even vaccinated people get measles? Or worse: shed them to others. It should be forbidden to vaccinate against measles. LOL
joe
t
As if Jamie could think. The "censorship" I'm suggesting is more like self- imposed quality control - if Jamie could be brought to understand how much of prat he is, he might realise that was in his own interest to advertise t he fact less widely. You probably won't be able to get your head around tha t concept either.
-- Bill Sloman, Sydney
=3
.He started it.
Lowish and zero. Some conventional cancer treatments work quite well - cis- platinum for testicular cancer comes to mind - but if you don't catch a can cer early they trend to be hard to cure. Holistic cancer treatments don't s eem to make any difference at all if the statistics are to be relied on.
That's what I was criticising.
As if Joey Hey knew the difference.
-- Bill Sloman, Sydney
t e d o t
Vaccinated people rarely get the disease they were vaccinated against. If - for some reason - the vaccinating medium doesn't activate an immune respon se, it won't be doing it's job. I imagine that this does happen, but it won 't happen often - not often enough to compromise herd immunity.
If you've got a specific example of vaccination failure in mind, and the st atistics to make it clear what proportion of the time the vaccination faile d, you'd have something interesting to say, but this would be a first for y ou, and I don't expect to see any kind of useful response.
-- Bill Sloman, Sydney
isn't quite what you thought you saw.
and goes wrong from time to time. Think Crohn's disease.
Hi Bill,
That's great you are learning here is some more recent ideas about viruses:
cheers, Jamie
medium doesn't activate an immune response, it won't be doing it's job. I imagine that this does happen, but it
won't happen often - not often enough to compromise herd immunity.
of the time the vaccination failed, you'd have something interesting to say, but this would be a first for you,
and I don't expect to see any kind of useful response.
Hi Bill,
You've come a long way from your statement earlier:
"The body ideally should be virus-free - germs are rather different."
Which you now admit you were incorrect about so why so much hate spewed still?
cheers, Jamie
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If - > > for some reason - the vaccinating
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The body should ideally be virus-free - they don't do anything directly use ful to us, or for the bacteria on which they are parasites. The effect of b acteriophages is to maintain a relatively diverse population of bacteria in our guts, by a mechanism that uses up some of the food we put into our gut s.
In an ideal world we'd have a diverse bacterial population in our guts cont rolled by a process that didn't convert quite a few useful bacteria to much less useful bacteriophages.
Your reading comprehension is letting you down as usual. I don't hate you a nd Joe Hey, I just despise your dogmatic ignorance and your over-confident willingness to reinterpret stuff as if it fitted your silly ideas.
-- Bill Sloman, Sydney
, y r
ck.
that what I "figured out" - which is to say, saw in the published paper -
organs have evolved to exploit it, but it's a complex and chaotic system,
Nothing new there. There had to be a time when no living thing had it's own replication machinery, and got replicated by more or less random bits of R NA that happened to be lying around. Bacteria worked out how to package up a replicating system, and run it so that it replicated itself, and the ance stors of virus's learn how to parasitise them.
Why you think that this is a "recent idea" escapes me. It was pretty much w hat I was taught in Biology 1 in 1960.
-- Bill Sloman, Sydney
by more or less random bits of RNA that happened to be lying around. Bacteria worked out how to package up a replicating
system, and run it so that it replicated itself, and the ancestors of virus's learn how to parasitise them.
Hi,
The new concept is an emerging detailed "tree of life" for viruses, based on sequencing viruses. Also it is interesting to think how all of the tree's of life for what you would consider separate systems (ie your statement that ideally the human body should be free of viruses) are actually inseparable.
cheers, Jamie
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