OT: Goodbye to the American Dream

Not true. Stocks are not a zero sum game with a house cut. Stock are a game where on average every one gains.

How many IPO's would manage to raise any money if the shares could never be sold? Being able to buy and sell shares of established companies is an essential. Without that there would be no IPO's.

I understand the feeling. But even if you are an owner , investing in the company that you work for has some risk. If the company does poorly , you may be out of work at the same time when your investments go south. Not saying it is wrong, but it is riskier that having some money invested outside your company. Dan

luck, but mostly just recognizing what companies seemed to have their act t ogether and buying their stock. I bought Texas Instruments, John Fluke, IB M, Hexcel, and others. And bought S & P 500 index funds in my 401K . I al so bought a little Nucor stock when it was Nuclear Corp of America. Should have lost my ass on that, but it turned out okay.

I think it does. If you had zero chance of ever selling your house you'd have a lot more trouble buying one, getting a loan, or ever justifying the decision.

Likewise for buying part-ownership in a company. There'd be almost no orig inal investors if they had no possibility of selling. An active market in parts of companies--shares--assures the possibility of selling out when you want to.

I don't see anything harmful in buying a tiny part of a company you think i s good, to gain a claim on some part of its fortunes.

Certainly, many treat it that way. The Feds consider it one more way to manipulate the economy (by making investors think they're richer).

Cheers, James

, and then my wife and I both worked but lived on my salary and saved hers .

yoffs, so I got a job in Alaska for a year, and got some incentive pay for doing that.

red house company. And then when I realized that was not going to be good financially, I moved back to Washington State. And lived in an apartment f or a year while I worked an engineering job and also built a house evenings and weekends.

r the next twenty years. A Dutch Uncle would have been nice, but it is not a requirement.

lege fund for him with $1,000. And every year I contributed another $1,000 . But after about four or five years , I started only putting in enough mo ney so that the amount in the fund was the same in thousands as his age. A nd in another year or so , I did not have to contribute anything. When he went to college, I paid what I could out current income, and used money fr om his college account for the rest. When he graduated , he still had $65 ,000 in his account.

None of the wealthy people I know had Dutch uncles. All were first-generat ion, and earned every penny.

Cheers, James Arthur

Yes, it is true that "one" can become rich by many means. But everyone can't become rich. By definition "rich" is having a higher wealth than many others. If everyone becomes "rich" it is no longer rich. In fact, by considering how hard we need to work and the rewards we obtain most people in the US are "rich" compared to those living 100 years ago.

I have more wealth than the total net worth of about 40% of the US population. Anybody worth $1 does, too.

You can get rich by exploiting the work of others, or by... well, exploiting the work of others. I design things others want, exploit the work of others to build them and sell these things at a large profit, exploiting those who can't or don't want to design it themselves.

A house has real value. People can live in it.

Much of the stock market is gambling. The real winners are the brokerages and arbitragers and high-speed traders.

It funds the pros, the Goldman Sachs ("Government Sachs") of the world, and the need for showing quarterly earnings does longterm damage to companies and jobs. Small private companies, the ones who create American jobs, are punished by the current tax policies that favor the money dealers and funnel money into the public-stock market.

Yellen is on the back of a tiger she can't get off. She doesn't dare to do anything sensible for fear of being blamed for triggering the next, coming crash.

I find it funny that John refuses to discuss anything with me, but he is happy to argue meaningless nonsense with others like this. But that sort of emotional response is par for the course with many here.

Zero interest rates have interesting consequences. So does clamping down the safety valve on a boiler.

late

as luck, but mostly just recognizing what companies seemed to have their ac t together and buying their stock. I bought Texas Instruments, John Fluke, IBM, Hexcel, and others. And bought S & P 500 index funds in my 401K . I also bought a little Nucor stock when it was Nuclear Corp of America. Sho uld have lost my ass on that, but it turned out okay.

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A company can have real value too--it can make something people want. The ability to make (and sell) something has value, as proven by the fact that people are willing to pay for it. (Secondarily, companies can have cash and own assets & land.)

Like a company, a house can have a greatly inflated value. Houses that wou ld cost $200k in my world might be ten times that in yours, made of the same materials, similar labor, and offering the same comforts.

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They profit from the gamblers, that's true. Transactions need not cost muc h more than $100 or $200 bucks, a lot lower than selling a house.

On average, the total output, productivity, wealth, income, and profit of U .S. companies increases (in real terms) over time. The people who own a portio n of that are winners too.

k is

That's voluntary--it only happens if you let it (i.e., day trade).

A separate problem, and not universal. I wish Barack's court followed the same disclosure rules they impose on their subjects.

True.

The bill for the pseudo-stimulus (about .3 GDP*years worth) has to come due eventually. We spent about 5 years printing 6% of GDP in phony prosperity, borrowed from our future. The only question is whether we'll make monthly installments (reductions in future growth), or have the bill come due all at once.

James

Well done!

So you may well have crossed the big housing boom from 1960 to 1980. That all got more difficult later on.

A Dutch Uncle can take the form of options, of relatives, of a highly compensated position. It might mean VC money one time out of ten or a hundred.

I just mean "having kids is expensive." Of course it's doable, it's just much harder.

I think for both girls, we paid about two semester's tuition at a JUCO. One got a massive scholarship, the other paid for he own.

I wouldn't be so sure. Some seeds take a long time to sprout and bear only tiny flowers, but long lasting.

I have memories from parents and school of small things that stuck with me through the years. Even though they had no obvious impact I now realize they shaped my thoughts many, many times.

You obviously hang out with a better class of people than I do :) ( I know a handful like that, too. )

I'm not sure that "living beneath your means" is the important part of the equation. I know many people who have spent most of what they earn on what makes them happy and are doing very well. A good friend has always made more money than I have and has spent most of it over the years. She doesn't have as much accumulated wealth as I do, but I would never say I am "richer". I've never been to New Zealand or Vietnam or any of the other dozens of places she has been. Am I really "richer" because I have multiple houses and lots of funds in my IRAs/401ks?

I'm not sure how Bill Gates getting rich has done much for "society" either. What's your point?

This always blows my mind - that a *laser* company can be a hot property in this day and age. Being ignorant of the details, they seem common as dirt.

'Course, I watched the optical boom in the '90s where Collins Radio used to be and that was just crazy.

Slow and steady wins the race.

IMO, they happen because we can't manage the money supply well. Perhaps in a generation...

Maximum trollbait title, but it's a fun read:

If you have an hour, he gives the book away on BookTv here:

This one sells the majority of the light sources used in silicon lithography. That's a serious industry.

On Sun, 30 Aug 2015 09:15:42 -0700 (PDT), " snipped-for-privacy@krl.org" Gave us:

Marine One flies over the house all the time.

In your case, I was referring to the euphemism. Which also went over your head, of course.