OT: Goodbye to the American Dream

As if it mattered.

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Bill Sloman, Sydney

eem to spend any time with people who might look like that, so his idea of how they might be able to budget their income is ill-informed.

dependent

for

en, jobs,

ther.

undergraduate degree, I'd have earned twice as much as I got as a graduate student grant - this point was actually enshrined in Australian economic t hinking of the period, where the greatest cost of higher education was seen as deferred income.

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ents

to

Almost_Always_Do_Better

That gets rave reviews: o Charles Moore in The Daily Telegraph declared it to be "more a socialist tract than an objective analysis of poverty". o Gerry Hassan in The Scotsman said that Wilkinson and Pickett's claim that "more equal societies almost always do better" was "a universal, sweeping statement - which cannot be substantiated by most of their data."

Inequality is good. Some people work harder. Some better, faster, or more . Rewarding unequal efforts equally is the definition of injustice.

has been shifting income from everybody except the rich (about 90% of the population)to the rich (the remaining 10%, and more of it is going to the t op 1%).

Obama's effected that rather nicely. The quantitative easing needed to fin ance his boondoggles pumps the stock market up, benefiting investors. Meanwhile it stymies honest organic growth (that would benefit the poor).

On several fronts he's burning jobs and boosting fatcats (like Elon Musk, & Buffett). He can't help himself. Which is pretty funny, him being a Marxi st redistribution guy and all.

The subsidies, like in health care, make it cost more.

ollment/ "We find that each additional Pell Grant dollar to an institution leads to a roughly 55 cent increase in sticker price tuition," the report says. "For subsidized loans, we find a somewhat larger passthrough effect of about 70 percent."

That's why it's unaffordable.

k then they weren't his make the rich-even-richer Tea Party Republicans.

Cheers, James Arthur

Yes, clearly this is a political issue. We see the same results in Maryland and... wait, we had *all* Democratic in the years when college was inexpensive and *more* Republican in more recent years when college is very expensive.

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Rick

There is an interesting fallacy. You assume out of state students are being accepted in larger numbers because they pay higher tuition and then conclude this displaces in state students as if it were a zero sum game. Has it occurred to you that without the higher tuition payments of the out of state students there would be fewer seats for in state students?

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Rick

On Tue, 25 Aug 2015 01:34:32 -0400, rickman Gave us:

Essentially, regardless of the political spectrum, college just got too goddamned expensive because the administrators, not the instructors, got too goddamned greedy.

: :

seem to spend any time with people who might look like that, so his idea o f how they might be able to budget their income is ill-informed.

nd

of

my undergraduate degree, I'd have earned twice as much as I got as a gradua te student grant - this point was actually enshrined in Australian economic thinking of the period, where the greatest cost of higher education was se en as deferred income.

the

It has. You don't seem to have found any of them, and have had to scrape th e bottom of the barrel to find anything that's less than enthusiastic.

t tract than an objective analysis of poverty".

As if the Daily Telegraph would print any other kind of reaction. It's more right-wing than any other English newspaper that I know.

at "more equal societies almost always do better" was "a universal, sweepin g statement - which cannot be substantiated by most of their data."

Wilkinson and Pickett are medical epidemiologists by training. Gerry Hassan is a research fellow in the school of creative and cultural industries of the university of the West of Scotland. His opinion on what can be substant iated by the extensive statistics marshalled in the book is - no doubt - co mforting to people who don't like the book, but it's hard for anybody witho ut an axe to grind to take him seriously.

re.

At the moment, senior executives in US firms are rewarded for their efforts at several hundred times the rate paid to the average employee. Comparable work in non-US companies is less generously rewarded, and nobody who has l ooked at this in detail thinks that there's any relationship between the re muneration and the value to the organisation of the work being paid for.

Some inequality is good. The level of inequality within the USA at the mome nt is obviously excessive, and decidedly counter-productive.

on has been shifting income from everybody except the rich (about 90% of th e population)to the rich (the remaining 10%, and more of it is going to the top 1%).

It's been going on since Reagan was first elected. Obama doesn't like it. b ut is powerless to do anything about it.

le

Quantitative easing finances what you see as his boondoggles strictly to th e extent that they've kept the US economy running fairly close to full capa city.

If your lunatic ideas had been put into practice, you'd have had a re-run o f the Great Depression, with a 25% contraction of the economy, and your gov ernment would be forced into beggar-my-neighbour economies.

&

xist

He's scarcely a Marxist redistribution guy. You may not have noticed, but t hat school of economic thought died out shortly after Bastiat.

In so far as Obama has any control of the US economy, he's strictly busines s as usual. This doesn't suit you because you wanted somebody to apply your idiot theories, which would have crashed it in flames.

nrollment/

o a roughly 55 cent increase in sticker price tuition," the report says. "F or subsidized loans, we find a somewhat larger passthrough effect of about

70 percent."

It's unaffordable because the middle-class families who used to pay for it now don't have the disposable income to do so. Student loans are supposed t o make up the difference, but - as you say - the educational institutions h ave worked out that raising their prices just forces the students to borrow unreasonable amounts of money in a loan environment where they are allowed to.

Sub-prime mortgage crisis anybody? If the rich keep on screwing down middle class incomes, the education that used to be necessary to let you access a middle class income is soon going to be worthless. Not because it has lost it's intrinsic value, but because nobody will pay you enough extra to make it worthwhile to acquire the education in the first place.

ack then they weren't his make the rich-even-richer Tea Party Republicans.

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Bill Sloman, Sydney

hmm, the president is powerless to reduce income redistribution?

How about building the Keystone pipeline, that would provide jobs and put money in lower and middle income pockets. How about easing up on the EPA's devastation of the coal industry, that would would provide jobs and put money in lower and middle income pockets. How about restricting illegal* immigrants and fine companies that hire illegals, that would would provide jobs and put money in lower and middle income pockets. How about building a boarder fence, that would would provide jobs and put money in lower and middle income pockets. There, I gave the president some power.

• oh but who will pick our crops? Let the prices rise until Americans will do it. With the Labor Force Participation Rate at 62.6%, some Americans need jobs.

Mikek

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Now, with Obamacare's student loan takeover you have the best of both worlds!

"We find that each additional Pell Grant dollar to an institution leads to a roughly 55 cent increase in sticker price tuition," the report says. "For subsidized loans, we find a somewhat larger passthrough effect of about 70 percent."

Giving people loans to buy things they can't afford and don't expect a return from drives up the price of just about anything. We've just tried health care, houses, and yes, college too. Over, and over, and over. See a pattern? No, of course not!

Cheers, James Arthur

I don't know about greedy, but the federal interference has interrupted ordinary price-signalling: feedback. Normally if you charge more than people think your product is worth, or more than they can afford, your sales drop off. It's self-limiting.

And students wouldn't be willing to pay X, unless they estimate a high chance of earning n * X from their investment.

We've killed that on both sides. Government removed the governor.

Cheers, James Arthur

On Tue, 25 Aug 2015 07:31:05 -0500, amdx Gave us:

A few hundred or a few thousand folks, when millions are out of work.

But yes... we do need the pipeline.

On Tue, 25 Aug 2015 07:31:05 -0500, amdx Gave us:

Horseshit. It needs to be a wall. I have been saying this for well over a decade, so it is the only thing The DonaldTard got right so far.

But no, NOT putting folks to work. Put PRISONERS to work.

Make Donald Trump one of them. The criminal bastard he is.

more.

orts at several hundred times the rate paid to the average employee. Compar able work in non-US companies is less generously rewarded, and nobody who h as looked at this in detail thinks that there's any relationship between th e remuneration and the value to the organisation of the work being paid for .

moment is obviously excessive, and decidedly counter-productive.

tion has been shifting income from everybody except the rich (about 90% of the population)to the rich (the remaining 10%, and more of it is going to t he top 1%).

t. but is powerless to do anything about it.

Seems to be. The obvious way of doing it would be to increase the marginal income tax rate on higher incomes. At the moment it peaks at 39.6% on incom e over about $400,000 per year. Many countries push it up to 60% - historic ally it has been as high as 99%, but that was a waste of time, because peop le on high incomes devised tax-avoiding ways of making them look lower.

There's also the point that "executive incomes" in the US are unreasonably high, and there's probably room for legislative intervention to dismantle t he interlocking rings of "executive remuneration committees" who all award one another unreasonably high salaries.

Neither is going to get through a Republican-dominated Congress.

Both of which would put more CO2 into the atmosphere, screwing up the clima te even faster than it is being screwed up now, and wrecking the economy wi th progressively more "unpredictable" extreme weather events.

The legislation is there. How come nobody enforces it effectively? Note tha t the companies that hire illegals do seem to have quite a bit of money ava ilable for lobbying and bribing politicians.

You would have done, it you had the power to do it. In the US, the people w ho own the country run the country - a phrase used by the founding tax evad ers.

But not the ones with political influence.

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Bill Sloman, Sydney

Ok, I want to do it cheap, two 12 ft chain link fences 50ft apart,with Concertina wire in the middle. Then spend more money on surveillance and what ever kind of technology is required to monitor for tunnels. Prisoners would be fine. (but it's kinda hot down there) I've been pushing the wall for a long time as well. Here in Panama City fl. we had a great building boom on the beach,

2000 to 2007. 20 and 25 floor condos went up with many, many, illegals doing the building. Take a look,

I have a small business and they came and bought from me, usually 4 males and they all paid with $100 bills. In 2007 the boom busted, hard, partially started projects were abandoned. The citizens complained for a few years to get them cleaned up. But the important point when the illegals didn't have work, they disappeared. My Mexican customers were gone.

Here's a funny story that happened when we had lots of illegals here.

Here's the 'just of it' if you don't want to click.

"Seven cars full of illegal aliens abandoned their vehicles on the Thomas Drive flyover Thursday evening and ran from sheriff?s deputies.

The confusion started when Mathew McRaney, of 720 Beachwood Lane, Panama City Beach, jumped out of a deputy?s car about 4:45 p.m. on the flyover and started to run. McRaney, 32, had been arrested earlier in the day on felony warrants, including aggravated battery, and was being taken to Bay County Jail.

On the way to the jail, he complained his handcuffs were cutting off his circulation, Sasser said. When a deputy stopped on the flyover to check the cuffs, McRaney fought with him and escaped. The deputy, whose name was not released, called for backup.

Several patrol cars headed for the flyover in the eastbound lanes of U.S. 98 with lights and sirens blazing. When they got to the flyover, SEVEN cars abruptly pulled over, and everyone inside poured out and ran. Most of the people ran for the wooded area east of the Naval Support Activity ? Panama City, but authorities do not believe anyone is on the base.

Others ran across the westbound lanes of U.S. 98 into a construction area."

Mikek

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My house dropped in value by 1/2, I'm still waiting for my bailout. Oh wait, I saved my money and bought the house, I guess since I didn't use other peoples money I don't get bailed out. I paid my *kids college costs without loans, I guess I won't get a reduction my cost.

Mikek

• They both had grades that earned them a state scholarship paying some of the costs, so my share was reduced.

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Yes, but you've got two(?) great kids you can be proud of. Probably junior Moustachians too, I'd guess :-)

I read an essay last week to the effect that welfare didn't sink us ages ago because ages ago, people never dreamed of living off their neighbors.

Cheers, James Arthur

James Arthur is happy to guess stuff that suits his point of view, and to ignore stuff that doesn't.

You do read those kinds of essays. Welfare didn't sink us ages ago - and isn't sinking us now - because it isn't about people living off their neighbours, but rather about people being helped by their neighbours.

Modern socialism formalises the process to some extent, and some of the more deranged people who need the help claim that they are exploiting their neighbours, but it takes equally deranged people like James Arthur to take them seriously.

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Bill Sloman, Sydney

y high, and there's probably room for legislative intervention to dismantle the interlocking rings of "executive remuneration committees" who all awar d one another unreasonably high salaries.

Regulating salaries is not a legitiment government concern.

ockets.

mate even faster than it is being screwed up now, and wrecking the economy with progressively more "unpredictable" extreme weather events.

False. The Canadians are going to produce the oil regardless. If the keys tone pipeline is not built, the oil will go to west coast of Canada and be shipped from there.

hat the companies that hire illegals do seem to have quite a bit of money a vailable for lobbying and bribing politicians.

It is not because of lobbying and bribing politicians. It is because the b order is very long and hard to control effectively.

bly high, and there's probably room for legislative intervention to dismant le the interlocking rings of "executive remuneration committees" who all aw ard one another unreasonably high salaries.

Minimum wage legislation is pretty much universal. We aren't talking about maximum wage legislation here, but rather regulating a situation where boar drooms are colluding to pay themselves a lot more than they are worth, and messing up the country in the process.

As far legitimate government concerns go, it's a lot more legitimate than t he war on drugs, which prohibits American from using anything except ethano l and caffiene and nicotine to adjust their state of mind.

limate even faster than it is being screwed up now, and wrecking the econom y with progressively more "unpredictable" extreme weather events.

ystone pipeline is not built, the oil will go to west coast of Canada and b e shipped from there.

Really? That's along way, and it's a very expensive pipeline.

that the companies that hire illegals do seem to have quite a bit of money available for lobbying and bribing politicians.

border is very long and hard to control effectively.

How convenient. The Communist East German government did a pretty good job on a pretty long border, but your crew can't - or find it inconvenient - to manage anything half as effective.

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Bill Sloman, Sydney

nably high, and there's probably room for legislative intervention to disma ntle the interlocking rings of "executive remuneration committees" who all award one another unreasonably high salaries.

t maximum wage legislation here, but rather regulating a situation where bo ardrooms are colluding to pay themselves a lot more than they are worth, an d messing up the country in the process.

Still not a legit gov function. So who would determine what board members ought to be allowed to receive? And you spout a lot about messing up the co untry, but that is just your opinion. Not a fact.

the war on drugs, which prohibits American from using anything except etha nol and caffiene and nicotine to adjust their state of mind.

Trying to change the subject, eh? Whether it is legit ought to be determi ned on it's own merits. The war on Drugs crap is just an attempt to distra ct the readers.

climate even faster than it is being screwed up now, and wrecking the econ omy with progressively more "unpredictable" extreme weather events.

keystone pipeline is not built, the oil will go to west coast of Canada and be shipped from there.

Yes Really!! It is a long way and expensive, which is why people prefer bu ilding pipelines to connect to existing pipelines. But the Canadians have invested billions into extracting oil from sands. They are not going to si t by and junk all that.

te that the companies that hire illegals do seem to have quite a bit of mon ey available for lobbying and bribing politicians.

he border is very long and hard to control effectively.

b on a pretty long border, but your crew can't - or find it inconvenient - to manage anything half as effective.

What a laugh. The U.S. border is much much longer. Just the section betwe en New England and Canada is about as long as the border around Germany, mu ch less the border between East and West Germany.

Dan