OT: Food Stamps

Den søndag den 13. oktober 2013 22.56.11 UTC+2 skrev Don Y:

een it)

I was being a bit cheeky, but some times feel like some charity is more for being seen as good than doing good

I'm lucky enough to live in a place where homeless is generally by some kin d of choice or inability to keep and live in a place even if one was provid ed

so those standing on a corner asking for change is most likely come by bus here to scam as much money as they can before they get bussed back home to pay their masters

-Lasse

l replacement type of high nutrient density products are commonly prescribe d for various forms of wasting such as cancer related cachexia. The Ensure products can be a real lifesaver for many people, especially the elderly wi th severe sarcopenia and inefficient digestive tracts. You might get a clue that these products are usually found in the pharmacy aisles.

Is it your contention that 1 in 6 Americans has a wasting condition? If so, the food stamps seem to be working exceedingly well--they're all fat.

Here's the first bar I checked off the EBT list:

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Even this "low carb" bar has 21g of sugar, plus 15g sugar-alcohol, to make it sickeningly sweet.

They cost $1.75/bar, for 32 grams of whey protein (a high-quality protein), compared to a $1 bag of beans that has over 100g.

As far as actual food value, $20.89 for 12 bars is 5.4 cents per g protein; beans are less than a penny per g protein.

in and of themselves, they must be combined with meat to form a complete d iet.

If meat were essential, a great fraction of India would be dead. You can complete the protein easily by adding complementary foods, such as beans and corn, or milk, eggs, grains, etc, as ancient cultures have known and practiced for millennia.

Meat's a luxury food, especially in poor countries. It was in America too until recently--my family rarely ate meat when I was a kid, due to the cost.

ate their drug deals, Obama should have given them slow cookers to stew tho se beans.

It's tremendously cheaper, uses less fuel to produce, etc. I wager we'd have a lot fewer choosing to be poor if it meant having to eat cheap, healthy stuff. We'd save a bundle in BarakOCare, too.

Cheers, James Arthur

That sounds like a lot. Texas grows most of its prisoner's food on the prison farms. They make a lot more, too, enough that they sell it to others'.

Good point. Kinda like driving a Prious or recycling cardboard.

Some charities are far better than others. Look for ones with a very low overhead ratio. Red Cross, bad. Salvation Army, good. But some have a bigger issue with religion than theft from charity.

That's a good point but it ignores the fact that some paid staff is rather important in some charities. Cancer research and children's hospitals come to mind. Researchers and nurses have to get paid.

Good points.

I have become "significantly disenchanted" (how's that for being polite? :> ) with most "charities". As I said before, it seems like most are folks wanting to get paid without having to have a "boss". etc

I've seen both ends of the spectrum. I watched several people in the neighborhood lose their homes just by a coincidence of "bad luck" (divorce seems to be a big trigger for this!). I've also seen people willingly *avoid* work and stand with their hands outstretched as if they *deserved* a "hand out".

We've seen "street beggars" (no idea how else to put it) "picked up" at the end of the day AS IF they were "employees". I've also encountered "couples" who seem to just have been down on their luck and trying whatever they can to make ends meet (just because you can't get a job doesn't mean your landlord will "forgive" your rent, etc.).

I'm just too much of a cynic to willingly hand over cash and *con* myself into thinking I've "done good". Too many first-hand examples of abuses have hardened me to how people will misuse outright gifts.

And, I think it creates a sense of entitlement -- all they had to do was *ask* and their needs were met (at least partially). What does this teach -- besides how to *ask*? And, when does that turn into

*demand*??

I recall one organization giving a computer system to a Somali refugee ~10 years back. Instead of gratitude, the recipient complained that he was getting a CRT monitor instead of an LCD monitor. "WTF? It's

*free* and you're complaining? Tell me, did you even have ELECTRICITY in the village that you came from??"

eal replacement type of high nutrient density products are commonly prescri bed for various forms of wasting such as cancer related cachexia. The Ensur e products can be a real lifesaver for many people, especially the elderly with severe sarcopenia and inefficient digestive tracts. You might get a cl ue that these products are usually found in the pharmacy aisles.

Is it your contention that all food stamp recipients are buying proteun sup plements?

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Okay, you're giving away your ignorance. You don't take protein dense suppl ementation without something additional to induce insulation secretion requ ired for protein absorption by the muscle cells. That is the purpose of the sugars. Pure Protein is one of the better brands, they know what they're d oing. It is not a substitute for candy.

Bean protein on its own is worthless.

ss in and of themselves, they must be combined with meat to form a complete diet.

A great fraction of India looks dead. Those people are hardly the picture o f health. Most of them have a really unattractive physical constitution, ev en the lean ones are what's called "skinny fat."

Milk and eggs, yes, the other stuff, no. Grains are usually considered bad, full of what's called anti-nutrients naturally occurring in the seed to pr eserve their structure against nature, they can actually impede nutrient me tabolism from other sources.

"Tent City" is in beautiful downtown Phoenix... no farm land.

Joe's attempt at "chain-gang" work crews that earned money for themselves and points toward early release was vetoed by you-know-who.

(Early release for minor crimes.)

Joe even had women-based chain gangs. The women were particularly miffed at Holder's screwing them over.

Prius drivers are so... so... so Prissy ;-) ...Jim Thompson

--
| James E.Thompson                                 |    mens     | 
| Analog Innovations                               |     et      | 
| Analog/Mixed-Signal ASIC's and Discrete Systems  |    manus    | 
| San Tan Valley, AZ 85142   Skype: Contacts Only  |             | 
| Voice:(480)460-2350  Fax: Available upon request |  Brass Rat  | 
| E-mail Icon at http://www.analog-innovations.com |    1962     | 
              
I love to cook with wine.     Sometimes I even put it in the food.

I tend to support the Catholic food banks, since they are primarily run by volunteers. ...Jim Thompson

--
| James E.Thompson                                 |    mens     | 
| Analog Innovations                               |     et      | 
| Analog/Mixed-Signal ASIC's and Discrete Systems  |    manus    | 
| San Tan Valley, AZ 85142   Skype: Contacts Only  |             | 
| Voice:(480)460-2350  Fax: Available upon request |  Brass Rat  | 
| E-mail Icon at http://www.analog-innovations.com |    1962     | 
              
I love to cook with wine.     Sometimes I even put it in the food.

I think we're in violent agreement. I was talking about fund-raising volunteer work where your time is used to generate money which the organization then spends or distributes.

The first goal of any organization is to survive, the second is to grow, after that comes whatever else they're supposed to be doing.

I don't think that is going to be happening.

Even if you're there you might not see what is going on. The local Sally Anne was robbed of $2M worth of stuff over two years by insiders:-

Best regards, Spehro Pefhany

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"it's the network..."                          "The Journey is the reward" 
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Embedded software/hardware/analog  Info for designers:  http://www.speff.com

Catholic charities, in general, seem to be pretty good.

First, I think you'd really get along with a friend of mine who also subscr ibes to the notion that all social welfare safety nets ought to be as unapp ealing as possible, while still delivering on their intended purpose (which is presumable just keeping people alive?) His big kick is to give folks a monthly ration of rice, vitamin supplements, and maybe a one-room totally concrete "tent" to live in.

Anyway, just wanted to correct a statement about those high-dollar candy ba rs. Um, I mean.. protein bars, of course.

Usually the nutrient label lists the total carbs first, and then breaks the m down by type. The bar you chose has 26 grams per servings. OF THIS, les s than 1 gram is fiber and 21 grams are sugars. 15 OF THOSE grams are suga r alcohols. (So, not in addition.) It's a minor point. The actual label on the product probably indents this hierarchy to make it more understandab le, but possibly not.

At least - I'm pretty sure that's correct. I would verify it online, but alas, the US Government is shutdown and none of the websites are providing their usual content.

Still, a lot of folks on low-carb diets are trying to lose weight. And yes , low-carb diets do yield positive results. But 280 calories per serving i s STILL 280 calories! Pretty hard to lose weight munching on these babies, I'll bet. And for folks doing that induction phase of the Atkins diet, th e 1st week limit is only 20 grams of carbohydrate TOTAL for the day - so th is "candy bar" is hardly a dieter's dream. At least for a low-carb dieter.

And, as you correctly point out - these diet protein bars are typically mor e expensive than a T-Bone steak!

Pure Protein is a brand, not a descriptive. They are a big name in the busi ness:

The product in question is a "sports nutrition" supplement, it is not for l ow energy types sitting around counting calories, it for immediate post wor kout supplementation

The food assistance recipient is not being doled protein bars, he/she is re ceiving a fixed dollar amount. As long as the purchase is nutritionally sou nd they should be entitled to use the money any way they want.

Some people buy the individual membership or $30 or whatever the current price is, and buy most of their food in bulk. They get more food for the money on their cards, and it can only be used for food in Florida. A severely disabled friend of mine was looking into it when she died suddenly.

--
Anyone wanting to run for any political office in the US should have to 
have a DD214, and a honorable discharge.

Makes sense to me. I would hope they're at least as careful with their money as I am with mine.

Best regards, Spehro Pefhany

--
"it's the network..."                          "The Journey is the reward" 
speff@interlog.com             Info for manufacturers: http://www.trexon.com 
Embedded software/hardware/analog  Info for designers:  http://www.speff.com

Do you ever get any oxygen to your brain?

--
Anyone wanting to run for any political office in the US should have to 
have a DD214, and a honorable discharge.

COnsidering how little some of them get, they have no choice. The last time I looked, I was eligible for $10 a month, if I wanted to spend several days every six months running around to stand in long lines and put up with burnt out state employees. I figured it just wasn't worth the few dollars that would be left, after gasoline and wear and tear on my old truck.

--
Anyone wanting to run for any political office in the US should have to 
have a DD214, and a honorable discharge.

cribes to the notion that all social welfare safety nets ought to be as una ppealing as possible, while still delivering on their intended purpose (whi ch is presumable just keeping people alive?)

I see "poor" people frequenting fast food outlets. That's daft-- they're hiring servants, effectively, to prepare their food. I don't do that. Once upon a time, neither did they.

ts, and maybe a one-room totally concrete "tent" to live in. I'm with him on the rice and beans, the traditional food of peoples the world over.

I used to be heavy into nutrition, about a decade ago, when they discovered the most potent anti-oxidant value food was... pinto beans.

(That was when the ORAC rating was new and the "most potent" record was being broken daily; I'm sure the list has been greatly expanded by now.)

bars. Um, I mean.. protein bars, of course.

hem down by type. The bar you chose has 26 grams per servings. OF THIS, l ess than 1 gram is fiber and 21 grams are sugars. 15 OF THOSE grams are su gar alcohols. (So, not in addition.) It's a minor point. The actual labe l on the product probably indents this hierarchy to make it more understand able, but possibly not.

You're right, it's only 6 grams of straight sugar. The online label isn't indented. I missed that.

e of the websites are providing their usual content.

es, low-carb diets do yield positive results. But 280 calories per serving is STILL 280 calories! Pretty hard to lose weight munching on these babie s, I'll bet. And for folks doing that induction phase of the Atkins diet, the 1st week limit is only 20 grams of carbohydrate TOTAL for the day - so this "candy bar" is hardly a dieter's dream. At least for a low-carb diete r.

I've got no problem with people on special diets. I'm not a fan of Atkins--Atkins died of heart disease--but there's no question you can lose weight. Any kind of food restriction, whether in type, quantity, selection, color, timing, etc., results in eating fewer calories, and weight loss. And, weight loss is healthy, if you're fat.

But that's not how I see these pricey items being used in real life. In real life, they're candy bars.

ore expensive than a T-Bone steak!

Cheers, James Arthur

Ah. No, I won't get involved in "begging" for a charity. I am more interested in "the (stated) mission" and how effectively they perform that. The "Gala's" and other fundraisers aren't where I'll spend my time. That's where the folks with deep pockets and no *real* interest in the organization "ease their consciences" by writing 4, 5 and 6 digit checks -- without really caring about the details of how the money is used (their accountant doesn't care -- so long as it's a 501(c)3! :-/ )

I guess I see the mission as first and survival second. Growth need not fit in the picture unless it is to expand the mission.

Your choice. We are acutely interested in understanding various charities and their *true* effectiveness. Most of the spiel and literature you get carefully avoids revealing the

*real* truth. :<

E.g., ask any charity that accepts *material* (non cash) donations how they compute their "administrative overhead" (i.e., the portion of donations that they "consume" as a cost of doing business). To do so, they have to provide *some* valuation for the goods donated.

At the same time, they can't provide a valuation to the *donor* for the donation. WTF, you can value goods to "cook your books" but can't give the donor that same valuation??

It is actually pretty easy to peek behind the curtain if you spend much time at a charity. Most make their tax returns available for inspection (so you can decide if they are worth *your* donation). It's not hard to figure out which people are paid. And, which are "compensated" (stipends, etc.). You can further constrain this by comparing it against their declared "administrative costs". Utilities, rent, etc. are relatively easy to estimate -- unless they have some extraordinary "load" (e.g., making ice to distribute to homeless clients?).

You can also see the attitudes that the "staff" and volunteers have towards the organization and mission. I visited one charity where my tour was conducted with a *flashlight* as my guide was trying to pinch pennies by NOT illuminating the entire building "just to show me what it looked like".

And, you can watch to see how they treat their volunteers. Do they *value* them? Or, consider them "disposable"? (after all, the volunteers, for the most part, are the ones implementing their mission!)

Well, money i do not use to buy food is then available for sorely needed things like rubber baby buggy bumpers.