OT: *Bang* you are dead

Hi,

You are assuming that the immune system is just the antibody response to infection, but really that is the worst operating case scenario for an immune system (infected) and a healthy immune system can stop infection before it even starts and doesn't need to even make antibodies. How to improve the front line immune defense is natural cures that make you healthy, vaccines don't make you healthy.

cheers, Jamie

Hi,

Here's the innate immune system:

The vaccines don't do anything to help the innate immune system, and will damage it in several indirect (and also maybe direct ways).

Here's the adaptive immune system (what vaccines "help")

So there's a famous saying:

Give a man a fish and he eats for a day teach a man to fish and he can feed himself for life

Hi,

Here's the innate immune system:

The vaccines don't do anything to help the innate immune system, and will damage it in several indirect (and also maybe direct ways).

Here's the adaptive immune system (what vaccines target)

So there's a famous saying:

"Give a man a fish and he eats for a day teach a man to fish and he can feed himself for life"

I translate this to:

"Give an adaptive immune system a vaccine and it defends against one disease teach an immune system to defend and it can defend itself for life"

There are a lot of systems in the innate and adaptive immune systems that will not improve if they aren't used actively fighting off infections. That other saying "what doesn't kill you makes you stronger" applies here (no tax paper waste of money corporate science studies needed!)

cheers, Jamie

That's an absurd conclusion. The severity may not be as bad, unknown. Certainly vaccines are not 100% effective but that's not the point.

Complete bullshit. You'd rather they die, obviously.

What so amazing about lefties is not that they're so damned dumb, rather that they're so proud of being so damned dumb.

"Bigotry" is not what liberals exhibit - it's more a perfectly rational reaction based on direct experience.

krw sees anybody who doesn't share his irrational delusions as "stupid", when, in reality you'd have to be particularly stupid to share krw's point of view.

Jim-out-of-touch-with-reality-Thompson fails to realise that the ignorance he is enumerating is his own.

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Less than totally effective. The whooping cough the vaccinated kid got woul d have been less intense - and less infectious -than the disease he would h ave experieicned without any vaccination.

If vaccines worked perfectly - which they don't - then they produce perfect herd immunity. Less than perfectly effective vaccines still produce a very useful increase in herd immunity.

I think it's that they are so ignorant that they don't know that they are... add egotistical to that and you have lifelong Democrats. ...Jim Thompson

It doesn't.

We've extirpated the small-pox virus. Does that make us weaker as a species ?

For some versions of the adjective "scientific".

Viruses and infective agents generally are just parasites. Your arguments w uld have use all infested by tape-worms, liver fluh]kes and the like to mak e us stronger as a species, if weaker as individuals.

Fighting disease on your own doesn't make you stronger as much as it kills off that or weakens proportion of the population which isn't strong enough to win outright.

Old age weakens your immune system, whether you've built it up by exposing ti to every possible disease, or let it coast on herd immunity and the occa sional vaccination.

The immune system works by developing a specific immune response to a speci fic infectious agent. It does remember whether it has been assaulted by the same infectious agent earlier, but that's as far as it goes.

The immune system - whether healthy or weak, has to generate antibodies to a specific infection. Vaccination gives the immune system - weak or strong

- a flying start. It doesn't assume that the body's immune front line defen ces are week or strong - it just makes them stronger than the would have be en without intervention.

You are *SO* damned dumb, Slowman.

No, the proof is here for anyone who wishes to (and can) read. This, of course leaves you and all other lefties out in the cold, Slowman.

You do like to make this claim, but yopu are too dim to support it with any kind of evidence.

This comes from the twit who told us that the United States murder rate - of 4.7 per 100,000 - wasn't significantly different from anybody else's, when pretty much every advance industrial country has a homicide rate around one per 100,000.

Us lefties have got nothing to comfort us apart from the fact that we know what's going on, and you don't.

That is the main reason to do it. So that a pandemic flu outbreak doesn't compromise the staffing of the hospital in winter. Flu is too infectious otherwise and capable of airborne transmission.

That is basically exactly what they do in laymans terms at least. It primes the immune system to recognise the flu virus shell proteins more quickly if or rather when you get exposed to it. You only become ill when you are exposed to more pathogen than your immune system can handle and a vaccine increases that threshold.

The main purpose of vaccination is to drive the propagation factor for infection as far below 1 as it reasonably possible - so called herd immunity. Rapid exponential growth occurs when the propagation rate per infected person is 2 or higher as has happened here in the UK with measles due to the MMR scare a decade or more since.

What they say is probably true. A variant on what doesn't kill you makes you stronger, but it quietly ignores those victims of the novel swine flu variant who died as a result of catching it.

Incidentally the researchers are closing in on components of the flu virus that may pave the way for a universal flu vaccine that doesn't depend so much on the highly variable protein coat.

Unfortunately a lot more people these days are inclined to believe crank conspiracy theories. The UK has a serious problem with the present cohort of teenagers who were not immunised against mumps, measles and rubella because of the MMR vaccine scare. It is invariably the children of the worried well middle classes that are at most risk as their parents read all the frantic (and wrong) scare stories.

Exactly. They work in several ways which depending on how much infectious agent you are exposed to prevents infection taking hold or shortens the period you are poorly and severity. Vaccination against smallpox wiped it out completely. Polio is slowly getting there too.

TB vaccination post WWII worked in the first world but not elsewhere. It is making a resurgence again in vulnerable populations.

I don't have to, Slowman. You do that all by yourself. Constantly.

Idiot.

More proof of your delusion.

Can't be. There is no conspiracy in that theory.

Please! It's not just some "novel swine flu variant" that kills. Something like 65,000 people are killed by the flu in the US, alone.

The same is true in the US. These are all making a big comeback.

Polio is making a comeback, too. For the same reasons.

And coming back in strains that aren't so easily cured.

Revealing reaction when exposed with inarguable facts.

For a particularly bizarre definition of "delusion" - not believing the nonsense that krw posts.

Funny thing is, I suspect you actually agree with him on the subject of this thread (and/or its parent). Just neither of you noticed. :)

And it is worth pointing out that after a sustained global campaign over decades, it was on the verge of total eradication, with the UN closing in on the last few strongholds of that terrible disease.

Until some stupid anti-vaccination conspiracy theory crackpots started spreading false rumours and shooting the health workers.

Hi,

The immune system doesn't have to generate a specific response necessarily, there is a large part of the immune system that in fact works without any specific response, and vaccines will indirectly weaken this system.

cheers, Jamie