My quotations always specify an up-front payment _with_order_, usually
1/3 to 1/2.
Squabbles about that are so rare as to no longer be in my memory banks. ...Jim Thompson
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| James E.Thompson, CTO | mens |
| Analog Innovations, Inc. | et |
| Analog/Mixed-Signal ASIC's and Discrete Systems | manus |
| Phoenix, Arizona 85048 Skype: Contacts Only | |
| Voice:(480)460-2350 Fax: Available upon request | Brass Rat |
| E-mail Icon at http://www.analog-innovations.com | 1962 |
The only thing bipartisan in this country is hypocrisy
That's about right, except that I try to make sure I never "go negative." Contracts usually specify 1/2 to 2/3rds, paid up front and provide a clause for extensions and how that will work. To encourage them to keep on the right side of things, it specifies in writing that I won't continue if the balance goes to zero or below. There is usually a residual, which they may ask me to keep for later support, if questions come up. Or if that bit isn't used, I'll write them a check when they decide they want it or if I feel a need to close the books.
Early-stage Alzheimer's doesn't prevent people from being productive, useful members of society; Reagan was arguably still quite effective during his second term (regardless of whether or not you agreed with his philosophy), and I suspect there are very few situations wherein he made a decision any differently than he might of had he been 10 years younger: Presidents generally make very deliberate, considered decisions, so while his Alazheimer's may very well have slowed him down some, that's likely all it did -- he remained true to his beliefs.
I can't speak for Jim, but I generally don't do fixed priced contracts. Not unless I am completely aware of all the issues involved before starting and know exactly what I'm walking into. When there is project risk, and there is almost always is, there is no good reason I can think of why I should carry it. They are the ones who stand to gain by taking risk and they should own it. If they want me to take risks, I will do what I can to estimate the 'standard deviation,' multiply that by about three, and then add that back to the mean value and offer that as a fixed price. There's no point I can see where I should carry their project risk, unless they pay me to insure them for it.
Mostly fixed price quotations though, sometimes, I require a "retainer" for hourly "research" kinds of projects.
My Kiwi partners are rounding up even more work :-) ...Jim Thompson
--
| James E.Thompson, CTO | mens |
| Analog Innovations, Inc. | et |
| Analog/Mixed-Signal ASIC's and Discrete Systems | manus |
| Phoenix, Arizona 85048 Skype: Contacts Only | |
| Voice:(480)460-2350 Fax: Available upon request | Brass Rat |
| E-mail Icon at http://www.analog-innovations.com | 1962 |
The only thing bipartisan in this country is hypocrisy
I agree -- if you can get someone to pay you hourly, that's certainly the way to go.
Also agree, but I presume you understand that the reason customers might prefer a fixed-price bid is because they *think* they're completely aware of all the issues involved and that they are hiring you to perform a well-defined service. Of course, that often isn't the case, but clearly at some level most people prefer knowing ahead of time what their financial exposure is -- when one hires a guy to, e.g., paint your walls or re-roof your home or move your from state A to state B, consumers almost always demand a fixed-price contract since services such as painting, re-roofing, and moving are generally well-defined endeavors.
The approach I believe you mentioned you're using wherein the company sets up an account of, e.g., $10k or whatever initially, and you just draw from that and stop if you work through all of it it isn't replenished strikes me as a reasonable way to protect everyone's interests -- the customer has limited exposure, and you aren't forced to carry the risk of the company not really knowing what they wanted.
"Jim Thompson" wrote in message news: snipped-for-privacy@4ax.com...
Makes sense...
That's great!
I'd gladly pay something like $1k for an IC that's something like a 8x8 (or even 4x4) non-blocking RF switch matrix, say, 1.5MHz-3GHz with reasonable gain flatness/return loss/lots of isolation, but would probably only use a hundred or so a year, so unfortunately we're not at the level where anyone could afford to design & fab this for us. (Plus I imagine you'd find designing something like a switch matrix pretty boring anyway -- not even any differential pairs in there. :-) ).
Also out of curiosity: Have any of your designs been fabbed by Triquint?
One. An optical link circuit for Arizona Microtek...
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...Jim Thompson
--
| James E.Thompson, CTO | mens |
| Analog Innovations, Inc. | et |
| Analog/Mixed-Signal ASIC's and Discrete Systems | manus |
| Phoenix, Arizona 85048 Skype: Contacts Only | |
| Voice:(480)460-2350 Fax: Available upon request | Brass Rat |
| E-mail Icon at http://www.analog-innovations.com | 1962 |
The only thing bipartisan in this country is hypocrisy
"Jim Thompson" wrote in message news: snipped-for-privacy@4ax.com...
They appear to have some nice parts...
Annoying though that their web page:
formatting link
-- first wastes tons of space telling you that PS2 Solutions is their distributor in every single country and every single state (why not just list it ONCE? -- "Worldwide Ddistributor") and then, when you try to go there
I don't take their risks. If they want me to do that, they pay for it. It's not hard to suggest they find someone else.
Frankly, I don't find this kind of conversation difficult with clients I would want to work with. They understand the point, right away. Those who don't in the end will represent even further risks to me and I prefer to let them find someone else.
Thanks.
It's my job, looking over their specifications and/or through conversations, to ferret out risky areas where **I** don't know everything. If they know it cold, then that fact will come out in the conversations and I will learn enough about it to either agree, or not. It's all part of negotiations.
Now you've changed the subject, though, and landed squarely back where we started -- financial risk. If they want me to eat their risk, they have to pay for the privilege. And that conversation is very easy to have.
They can fix their financial risk, but it will cost them more to do it. I am willing to take bets. But since that isn't my business area, I want to win most of them.
That's its purpose. Usually, they can work within their own payables processes to arrange for checks at reasonable times and they will already have disclosure (a progress report and an itemized bill) about what has already gone on beforehand when they take that next step. They can stop in the middle and ask for a check back for the remainder, too. And they will get it quite soon.
I should add that this "policy" of mine has, in the past, worked to advantage for other consultants who hired me to help them. Since I required this, and since they then had to have that discussion with their client because of me since they didn't have "deep pockets," it also worked out that they _also_ got started on a better footing with their client than they might have otherwise known to struggle for. So they got paid in advance, paid me in advance, and they learned a little something in the process.
...
The wonderful thing about all this is that it makes sense and isn't hard to explain.
Jon
P.S. And the "big guys" have their own muscles (potential purchasing power) to exert, which they are not the least bit afraid to use on smaller companies. So there is balance in the world. ;)
I've snipped the rest of what you've written, since it makes good sense. Just realize that while you rightly perceive risk in customer not really knowing what they want, customers rightly perceive risk in consultants in that they think they don't know apriori whether or not the guy is a good value for the money. Hence the desire at the beginning of a relationship for both parties to try to limit their potential exposure. (Kinda like any relationship... just getting the girl's phone number is a major step sometimes... :-) )
When business is good, sure... but I think most people have worked at companies that took on projects or have themselves been consultants on projects where you compromise your usual standards for the sake of not having to lay people off or to put food on the table. Of course, the better your company or skill set, to a large extent the less likely you'll ever be in such a position.
Heck, I once worked for a little company down in Albany where we took on a contract for ~$1M because otherwise the place was looking at having to lay off people and very possibly close the doors entirely (at that point, it was only about 8-10 people). The ~$1M wasn't really enough to cover the actual development costs of the product requested -- and one might construe that management very well knew this -- but it did provide operating capital for a year, by which times other contracts had been obtained. Not surprisingly (in retrospect), the project ended badly with the company refusing to continue development at the point where the product pretty-much-but-not-really-worked and the $1M was exhausted. The customer threatened to sue, and while it's likely they could have gotten at least something back, they decided to drop it and everyone went their separate ways.
Slowman does nothing but lie. Whether it's his silly opinions on AGW or economics, if he doesn't have the facts (never does) he just lies. He's been outed over and over but like the good commie he is, he just makes up another whopper.
The truth is not foolish, Slowman. Hows that AGW workin' out for ya?
A few years ago there was a ruckus because Californy decided it should get income taxes on retirement benefits if they had been earned in Cal, even if the retiree didn't live there any longer. Got slapped down right quickly... ;-)
They are trying a new trick now, for example if someone in sales happens to be going through another state and does biz there that state may want taxes. So a traveling salesman may have to do dozens of tax returns. Pathetic.
Now if they instituted a SPICE simulator tax I'd be screwed ...
--
Regards, Joerg
http://www.analogconsultants.com/
"gmail" domain blocked because of excessive spam.
Use another domain or send PM.
Of course... if it is a new relationship. However, that can be solved by taking things slowly. Short project or perhaps a time-and-materials production (week long? or two?) of some kind of analysis that they can take to any consultant, later on.
No one is (or should be) forced into some long thing before they get a chance to find out more about each other.
Besides, it's usually better to take it slow in developing relationships that will last and be of mutual benefit.
But that 'desire' still doesn't mean I eat their risk for them.
If they want to limit their exposure to my ignorance or ineptness (and I will admit to either or both on a wide array of subjects), then the best way to proceed is slowly. Either of us can back out without much harm to the other.
What you _may_ be suggesting is more like jumping into a marriage without dating, first.
Like I said above, a short time-and-materials project or analysis might be a good way to start out. For a big project, it's probably smarter anyway to start with an hourly billed phase 0 where the output is a clear statement of risks and work ahead that is written so that it can be understood, criticized, and taken to other consultants if they want. It might even be possible, after that much, for me to consider doing a fixed price bid that is more reasonable, too. I might know enough by then. And if they don't like the product, they can cut me off without any further ado.
It doesn't really make much sense to hit the throttle right out of the starting gate with a long contract with someone they don't even know. Even with recommendations from others.
Relationship counts.
Your suggestion seems built more on some difficult situation where the service consumer (client) is in desperate straits and needs help right away from anywhere and where the service provider (contractor) is similarly desperate for work. That may be a recipe for disaster on all fronts, anyway.
If there is no time for getting to know each other and there is __exposure__ to be had, I'd probably argue that it should pushed more onto the side of the one with the biggest wallet. Usually, that is the service consumer.
Business isn't ever easy, but these times are no excuse for reckless behavior.
I'm not sure, though, there is ever an excuse for picking up a client's project risk without being paid for that. Usually, they know more about it than you do and if they don't want it, you shouldn't want it, either.
I know we are just bantering, here. But it's simply never been worthwhile for me. If a company is openly asking me to take on their risks without getting paid, it's almost always a bad deal (something about which they not infrequently know far better than I do) and will wind up costing me far, far more than the contract is worth.
Of course, if the contract has enough "meat" in it that I can bury the risky fat into it and still have it taste good, then I suppose you might have a point. But we are talking about significant project risk. Insignificant risk isn't worth worrying anyone about. That's the job of the contractor to make go away.
I suppose. But even if your skill set isn't that good, buying into significant project risk without getting paid to do so will eat you alive, sooner or later. It is just a bad deal.
This is a recommendation for accepting a contract with huge risks in it??? It's more like a story to stay away from anyone and everyone involved in it, to me. No winners, just takers.
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