No user serviceable parts inside

Yuck. That sounds a bit extreme. In most cases, it's simply sufficient to know if the device has been opened, which implies that a repair has been attempted. That provides grounds for refusing to repair it for free under the terms of the warranty. A cheap label is usually sufficient: More important is an immersion or water damage "dot" or label, again to provide grounds for refusing to do a free warranty repair. Maybe also a shock sensor, to deal with shipping damage and idiots pounding on the product with a hammer. Extra credit for adding a temp sensor, accelerometer, GPS and a data logger, so that the company can track how and where the device has been used, again to provide grounds for invalidating the warranty. The "telemetry" data is also useful for providing marketing information. Maybe add a warranty timer that reduces performance after the warranty expires to help inspire a replacement purchase. And... it all started with just a warning label.

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Jeff Liebermann     jeffl@cruzio.com 
150 Felker St #D    http://www.LearnByDestroying.com 
Santa Cruz CA 95060 http://802.11junk.com 
Skype: JeffLiebermann     AE6KS    831-336-2558
Reply to
Jeff Liebermann
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Evry1 lies bt that's k cuz nobody pays ATTN.

Maybe write the warranty in their native language (texting)? For example: "This is a test" converts to "DIS iz a tst".

However, that won't help. It has been demonstrated many times that nobody reads the warranty, terms of service, appropriate use policy, privacy policy, read me first, and many other legal documents. There was one company that offered $1,000 in their software licence agreement to the first person that would write the company and claim the reward. It was something like 4 months and 3,000 downloads before anyone bothered.

--
Jeff Liebermann     jeffl@cruzio.com 
150 Felker St #D    http://www.LearnByDestroying.com 
Santa Cruz CA 95060 http://802.11junk.com 
Skype: JeffLiebermann     AE6KS    831-336-2558
Reply to
Jeff Liebermann

In the 70's, the cost of *writing* a PO was $75.

If you opt to address these sorts of "spares", you have to treat it as a cost of doing business. And, come up with ways where you can bypass the weight of your organization's "processes" to get those things done.

I have a bunch of outlet strips that SLIDE into clips that you mount on surface to which you'd like to fasten the outlet strip. Cheap little chunks of aluminum extrusion. But, without them, there is NO way to mount the strips (no mounting holes, etc. You'd have to make some custom strap to "cradle" the entire thing).

Call manufacturer looking to buy some of these (I have perhaps a dozen such strips so figure I can afford to make a purchase of 20+ of them). Secretary who answers phone takes my name/address. Padded envelope appears on my doorstep a few days later. "Thank you very much!"

Similarly, we have a dozen or more "Decora"-style 3-way dimmer switches in the house. Flimsy plastic "switch cap" doesn't last long (well, doesn't last as long as those that *don't* have the dimmer capability). Buying a new switch just to replace the plastic switchcap is ridiculous -- "It ain't broke!".

Call manufacturer, explain problem. Six replacements in the mail a week later. I.e., he realizes that its easier for him to ANTICIPATE my next failure (and followup call for parts) and cram a few extras into that envelope than to have to field my phone call later!

OTOH, I have a pair of VR eyeglasses that have a buggered "bridge". That part was designed to be replaceable (or, perhaps just HAPPENED to be replaceable as a consequence of the design process?). But, try

*getting* a replacement! Got to be a 5c item (flimsy little bit of plastic) but manufacturer doesn't have them -- and doubtful anyone is going to step up to make such an item! (glasses were better part of a kilobuck -- and still functional! -- so annoying to encounter this sort of VENDOR FAIL)

It's not my job to find them! The question is whther or not I do things that *facilitate* "tinkering" or just take an attitude of "minimizing manufacturing costs" without regard to the after-sale issues.

I have several "gyromice". Battery packs are no longer available for this model (and what makes me think battery packs for the NEWER models will be around any *longer*?).

Of course, it's just a NiCd battery in a little plastic module. I can find a similar sized battery pack and replace it myself. But for the fact that the case is solvent welded and now I have to take pains to cut it open and reseal it -- all without altering the "feel" of the mouse's outer skin (under my hand).

Yeah, putting the battery in a compartment sealed with screws (even self-tapping plastic screws) would probably increase production costs a few pennies. OTOH, a SNAP-ON lid for the battery COMPARTMENT would probably be a wash (DM+DL).

Wanna bet NO ONE thought about the day when they, THE MOUSE MANUFACTURER, stopped selling replacement battery modules?

Small phillips screws can be damaged WITHOUT the need for "powertools". A typical adult male can shear the tip off a #1 phillips driver with little effort (the reason this rarely happens is the screws are typically softer than the screwdriver). A #0 tip (commonplace in many such products) handles considerably less torque.

I think there are a lot of packaging options that can be brought to bear;

*if* you accept this as a design criteria. At the very least, making the fastener locations visible (even if the fasteners themselves are not!) goes a long way to helping a tinkerer open such a case. E.g., in snap together cases, if you KNOW where each latch is located, you have a far easier time opening the case.

Additionally, designing such fasteners so they CAN be opened (without self-destructing) helps.

Most products I've seen snap together, are solvent welded or have screws hidden under labels, etc. In almost every case, disassembling and reassembling the device with the intent of having it retain its original appearance and "strength" is a challenge.

[I dread each time a friend/colleague asks me to repair a laptop -- too many snap-together parts that I have to risk opening, "blind". And, unlike working under the hood of a car where your COSMETIC screwups are out-of-sight, the user will SEE each scratch you make in the plastic, etc.]

You can't answer that. Many (DIMM) memory sockets are rated at a

*HANDFUL* of insertion cycles. How many computers do you think have seen their memory swapped in/out more than that rated endurance limit?

Hard to let a tinkerer KILL HIMSELF when replacing a battery in a mouse or a bridge piece in a pair of VR goggles. OTOH, if/when the tinkerer damages said device (which COULD have been repairable), he'll probably realize HIS mistake (in the process) -- yet still hold a grudge against the manufacturer for a "stupid design".

[I.e., no, I'm not going to buy another pair of VR goggles -- least of all from THAT manufacturer!]

I think that's a bad idea.

Folks who aren't tinkerers would wonder why they were being given a spare case. And, tinkerers and nontinkerers alike would probably realize they should STORE that spare somewhere -- in case they need it.

Furthermore, when they end up misplacing it, they will think it logical that you should be willing to sell them a NEW spare case (because you were willing to give them one in the first place -- just like expecting you to sell them spare batteries if the product has a replaceable battery pack!)

Reply to
Don Y

Why do you have to do this? If someone wants to self-repair or modify, isn't the responsibility theirs? So long as you make it clear up front that you won't assist or supply parts for repairs or modifications, isn't that enough?

This may well be too starry-eyed for current legal reality. I get away with it as our customers are university researchers, and our products are almost all weird non-commercial devices for research purposes (not of general applicability).

Maybe there's no way to do this now, even like Tektronix and many others used to publish schematics and parts lists in their published service manuals. But I've read many of your complaints about the loss of these manuals and even how IC manufacturers rarely provide schematics. Haven't "we" become part of the problem?

{yes, I'm fully aware of how the current enormous role of firmware makes this much more complicated!}

Reply to
Frank Miles

I had that argument years ago with a manufacturer. I R/E-ed his code so that I could enhance the product functionality (and did). I also offered that information (free) to other owners of the product if they wished to so enhance their unit(s).

Mfr ranted about lawyers. I politely but firmly pointed out that I had a "licence to use" the product and that the R/E/modify was NOT in fact contrary to the licence/T&C. Also I could give away that knowledge, and if he DID actually get a lawyer to harass me I would simply "lend" my R/E "processor" to those others. Never heard from them again.

Reply to
pedro

And if you DO happen to have a warrantable claim on say an iPhone that is out of prod (it can happen) Apple generally just swap it for a refurb of that or a later model. Parts inventory begone!

Reply to
pedro

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